Santander for Bieber

[Sports Guy]

15 minutes ago, interloper said:

Sure. Like I said I think it's close. I just view Santander as a true MOO bat, of which there is only one other one on the roster in Henderson. He strikes me as a guy we'd want in a playoff run, and as much as I love Kjerstad (and I love Kjerstad), I don't think he's a 1-for-1 replacement for Santander at this stage. 

More than anything, I just think we can address the pitching elsewhere. Bieber is a health risk, too. Would I hate the trade, no, but it's not automatic for me. 

I’m not sure how you define a true MOO bat or where you consider the middle of the lineup but I disagree with that.

I think he’s a borderline 5/6 bat.

[Ripken]

Yes, IF he's healthy.

[interloper]

7 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I’m not sure how you define a true MOO bat or where you consider the middle of the lineup but I disagree with that.

I think he’s a borderline 5/6 bat.

That's a fair evaluation, but then consider that he's a #3 or #4 bat for us and what that means when you remove him. Like sure if we had a world class lineup like the Rangers he would be a 5 or 6 guy, but we don't have that. We have some good young bats and some iffy veteran bats like Hays and Mullins, and so removing Santander weakens this lineup significantly. He's the best veteran hitter on the team. Someone like the Rangers maybe wouldn't miss him, but the Orioles absolutely would. 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, interloper said:

That's a fair evaluation, but then consider that he's a #3 or #4 bat for us and what that means when you remove him. Like sure if we had a world class lineup like the Rangers he would be a 5 or 6 guy, but we don't have that. We have some good young bats and some iffy veteran bats like Hays and Mullins, and so removing Santander weakens this lineup significantly. He's the best veteran hitter on the team. Someone like the Rangers maybe wouldn't miss him, but the Orioles absolutely would. 

Just because we bat him 3/4 doesn’t mean that’s what he is.

You are overrating his impact imo.

[interloper]

10 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Just because we bat him 3/4 doesn’t mean that’s what he is.

You are overrating his impact imo.

Well the whole crux of my argument is that others tend to underrate his impact. I think it's pretty subjective. You either believe in him as a crucial part of the lineup, or you don't, and where you fall on that is going to determine how you feel about this hypothetical trade. 

I think Kjerstad will eventually surpass anything Santander has done in an Oriole uniform. I just don't think it's wise to subtract him in 2024 before we get a good sense who will be replacing his production. I envision lineups against RHP where Hays sits and you have both Kjerstad and Santander out there, and that sounds pretty good to me. 

[Oriole1940]

This question of Santander gone comes up every so often.  Remember the net gain for replacing such a bat is what is Over and Above Santanders production in an average year.  Some hurdle before there is a net gain in HR,  and  RBI.  And as was said without saying it, we do not have the Texas offense, not close.   We probably  would   really miss him.

[ChicagoTerp]

Borderline. If Elias did it, I'd trust it's the right move, based on anticipated future moves.

[Frobby]

19 minutes ago, interloper said:

That's a fair evaluation, but then consider that he's a #3 or #4 bat for us and what that means when you remove him. Like sure if we had a world class lineup like the Rangers he would be a 5 or 6 guy, but we don't have that. We have some good young bats and some iffy veteran bats like Hays and Mullins, and so removing Santander weakens this lineup significantly. He's the best veteran hitter on the team. Someone like the Rangers maybe wouldn't miss him, but the Orioles absolutely would. 

Look, no disrespect to Santander intended, but he’s a 109 OPS+ hitter for his career, who’s been at 120 and 121 the last two years.   I can’t say Kjerstad will top 120 in his first year, but he might, and his ceiling is well beyond that.  We’ve seen Adley debut at 131 and Gunnar at 125 in their first full seasons.  Kjerstad was at 106 in his brief audition.  I think the difference between Santander and Kjerstad would be significantly less than the difference between Bieber and whoever our 5th starter would have been without him.  

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Look, no disrespect to Santander intended, but he’s a 109 OPS+ hitter for his career, who’s been at 120 and 121 the last two years.   I can’t say Kjerstad will top 120 in his first year, but he might, and his ceiling is well beyond that.  We’ve seen Adley debut at 131 and Gunnar at 125 in their first full seasons.  Kjerstad was at 106 in his brief audition.  I think the difference between Santander and Kjerstad would be significantly less than the difference between Bieber and whoever our 5th starter would have been without him.  

Correct. Santander is a good player and he can carry you when he’s hot but he’s also not a great OBP guy and he goes into many horrific slumps throughout the season.

Teams have lost far better players than Santander and been just fine.  
 

 

[interloper]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Look, no disrespect to Santander intended, but he’s a 109 OPS+ hitter for his career, who’s been at 120 and 121 the last two years.   I can’t say Kjerstad will top 120 in his first year, but he might, and his ceiling is well beyond that.  We’ve seen Adley debut at 131 and Gunnar at 125 in their first full seasons.  Kjerstad was at 106 in his brief audition.  I think the difference between Santander and Kjerstad would be significantly less than the difference between Bieber and whoever our 5th starter would have been without him.  

That's fair. Like I said a few times, it's close. For me, I just think there's room for Santander and his 30 bombs in this lineup, even with Kjerstad. And I think we can find a SP upgrade without sacrificing the ML offense, which is already behind a few other playoff clubs. 

[sportsfan8703]

Switch hitter as well. Underrated by some on here. 

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

That's fair. Like I said a few times, it's close. For me, I just think there's room for Santander and his 30 bombs in this lineup, even with Kjerstad. And I think we can find a SP upgrade without sacrificing the ML offense, which is already behind a few other playoff clubs. 

Well, I’m open to finding a SP upgrade some other way.  But I think in many cases the cost will be greater than Santander.  

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Switch hitter as well. Underrated by some on here. 

Overrated by others.  

[OriolesMagic83]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Nope.  The tweet for this is hilarious.  Gorman has a bunch of control left, and Santa has only one year.  So I don't see how those are even comparable players for the Guardians to get back.  If we're looking to trade for a one year SP then I'd rather us target Jose Quintana.  Quintana would only cost prospects and not our MOO SH bat.  

Where will we find another MOOSH?  At least we still have a TOOSH!

[RZNJ]

I voted yes.  Deal from a position of depth for a need.  Kjerstad and Cowser compete for the RF spot.