Roster implications for trading Ortiz

[Billy F-Face3]

2 hours ago, banks703 said:

If Holliday can improve enough to be a major league quality SS, even average defensively, it is only a good thing for the O’s. Again, I have serious doubts on this based on what I’ve seen over 30ish games but he is only 20 years old and he certainly can improve on the defensive side.

Gunnar is (in my opinion) the best SS in the system now with Joey’s departure. His improvement last year coupled with Jorge’s regression elevated him to the top for me. I just don’t see them moving the much much better defensive player to a less important infield position to make room for another guy. 

To me, the alignment questions come down to who is less of a defensive drop-off from Gunnar and I think that Mayo is the x-factor. If Mayo shows that he can be average or better at the hot corner it really puts them in a pickle (a good one of course) with the Mayo, Holliday, Gunnar and Westburg. I’ve posted about Westburg’s potential to be Ben Zobrist. I genuinely think that is their plan and why the seemed to prefer him over Ortiz (I’m speculating of course and I personally preferred Joey). If Mayo can stick at third it almost requires them to move Holliday to second and to keep Gunnar at SS. I believe that’s what all of this will boil down to in the end and I think Mayo’s physical skills for 3B are better suited than Holliday’s skills as a SS.

I think that’s how it plays out long term and we see Basallo and Kjerstad eventually force a Mountcastle move.

I posted about an infield potential of Mayo, Gunnar, Holliday and Basallo. They could have these four guys as soon as 2025 with four years (three really productive between them all together) that I think will rival that 2009 Yankees. I have comped Holliday to Robbie Cano many times. I think that’s who Holliday is and why it’s perfectly acceptable that he ends up at 2B. Altuve won an MVP as a 2B. Pedroia won an MVP as a 2B. Jeff Kent, Joe Morgan, etc. I think some folks feel that moving Holliday to 2B reduces his value or makes him less than, which isn’t completely true. Not when your team already has a stud ROY SS who is only two years older than Holliday. 

Something worth considering with this idea of moving Jackson to 2nd Base is throwing angles turning double plays. Jackson is left handed. That means putting him at 2B will make double play throws more difficult for him when covering the base. It will be an adjustment for a guy who spent his whole life on the other side of the bag. You don't want him getting twisted up trying to make a throw. He will need many reps to get comfortable.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Something worth considering with this idea of moving Jackson to 2nd Base is throwing angles turning double plays. Jackson is left handed. That means putting him at 2B will make double play throws more difficult for him when covering the base. It will be an adjustment for a guy who spent his whole life on the other side of the bag. You don't want him getting twisted up trying to make a throw. He will need many reps to get comfortable.

You might want to tell Baseball Reference.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=hollid000jac

[Ripken]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You might want to tell Baseball Reference.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=hollid000jac

And Jackson.

[Say O!]

8 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Something worth considering with this idea of moving Jackson to 2nd Base is throwing angles turning double plays. Jackson is left handed. That means putting him at 2B will make double play throws more difficult for him when covering the base. It will be an adjustment for a guy who spent his whole life on the other side of the bag. You don't want him getting twisted up trying to make a throw. He will need many reps to get comfortable.

Not sure this is accurate.  In recent video from MLB pipeline, Jackson said that he does everything right handed but hit a baseball.  Even golfs right handed.  Additionally, Jackson has played 2B in the minors. 

[Billy F-Face3]

4 minutes ago, Say O! said:

everything right handed but hit a baseball.  

The hit a baseball left handed is why I thought he was left handed.

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

The hit a baseball left handed is why I thought he was left handed.

A lot of guys that hit left handed aren't actually left handed.

Gunnar and Heston both.

Edited February 2 by Can_of_corn

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

The hit a baseball left handed is why I thought he was left handed.

How many left handed throwing SS, second baseman and third baseman have you seen in the majors?

[Mooreisbetter27]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

How many left handed throwing SS, second baseman and third baseman have you seen in the majors?

I'd actually be curious to know when the last one was.  I know Mattingly played 3rd a few times for the Yankees.  Need Drungo to fill me in on them all.  

[Sports Guy]

32 minutes ago, Mooreisbetter27 said:

I'd actually be curious to know when the last one was.  I know Mattingly played 3rd a few times for the Yankees.  Need Drungo to fill me in on them all.  

https://www.baseball-reference.com/blog/archives/10835.html

[ChuckS]

1 hour ago, Billy F-Face3 said:

Something worth considering with this idea of moving Jackson to 2nd Base is throwing angles turning double plays. Jackson is left handed. That means putting him at 2B will make double play throws more difficult for him when covering the base. It will be an adjustment for a guy who spent his whole life on the other side of the bag. You don't want him getting twisted up trying to make a throw. He will need many reps to get comfortable.

When is the last time you saw a left-handed throwing SS?  You do realize that would be problematic as well?

I realize you are mistaken and may have not seen any highlights of playing in the field, but not sure how it can be confused what arm the man throws with, given that he is an infielder (non-first baseman). 

Edited February 2 by ChuckS

[RZNJ]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

How many left handed throwing SS, second baseman and third baseman have you seen ANYWHERE?

Fixed it.   

[connja]

16 hours ago, eddie83 said:

If you commit to Mayo at 3rd then you are committing to Holliday at 2nd. Gunnar is playing somewhere on the left side. 

I won't be surprised to see Mayo at first eventually as the replacement for Mounty.

[Sydnor]

16 hours ago, banks703 said:

With Gunnar you have above average, borderline elite defense and very good range, even for a bigger kid. This affords them some capacity to allow Mayo to play his way off of third base. I realize that he’s a big kid but it’s not like he’s Pablo Sandoval at 300 lbs over there. He’s big as in he’s 6’5 and built like a Tight End. He’s athletic and has a cannon. He’s lateral movement/quickness and footwork is the question. Personally I think he’s more likely to stick at 3B than Holliday is likely to stick as a SS.

When I saw Mayo in Norfolk last summer, I thought he moved well laterally. I saw him make a few inconsistent throws, but nothing that concerned me. I think he could play third on spending day and be average or better. I am not going to speculate on what the best future infield alignment will be, but I strongly believe that Mayo can effectively play third base in the major leagues. I feel like people that think he needs to move off the position to RF or first have never seen him play (again he may move off first because there is a better future alignment, but IMO it will not be because Mayo is below average).

[deward]

3 hours ago, Mooreisbetter27 said:

I'd actually be curious to know when the last one was.  I know Mattingly played 3rd a few times for the Yankees.  Need Drungo to fill me in on them all.  

I never knew that about Mattingly, that's pretty cool. Looks like Mike Pagliarulo got hurt at the start of a series in Seattle, and rather than make a roster move the Yanks just threw Mattingly out there for the rest of the series. He handled a number of chances, with one error.

Speaking of Pags, I'll always remember him being blazing hot after the O's picked him up for the last few weeks of the 93 stretch run, even though the team stumbled around him. 

[LookinUp]

Even after the trade, there's a still a log jam of outfielders and infielders. Some guys are going to be really sick of Norfolk really soon (they already are).