Jackson Holliday 2024

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

That’s the thing.  How long do you have to see it before you know?

He looked good in ST to me.  Maybe this is more of a fielding slump than someone who isn’t ready defensively.

 

Edited April 8 by RZNJ

[LookinUp]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

That’s the thing.  How long do you have to see it before you know?

Once comfortable, I'd think it'll be apparent in a week or two. We just have the unknown question of how long it'll take a talented baseball lifer to get comfortable at a position that's very similar to what he grew up playing.

It just sounds like most of it is about familiarity. We know he can catch and throw, but his athletic movements are certainly different. Kind of like in football when a left tackle plays right tackle. Similar position, but things are kind of backwards.

[Frobby]

2 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

 

Super small sample size of 8 PAs against lefties but he has slashed .429/.375/1.000/1.375 with home run and double and has not struck out against a southpaw.

It’s unfortunate that Holliday has faced so few lefties in the young season.  Gunnar has already had 20 PA vs. lefties this season.   

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

It’s unfortunate that Holliday has faced so few lefties in the young season.  Gunnar has already had 20 PA vs. lefties this season.   

It’s not unfortunate as much as it was a known issue…one the Os stated was the issue for Gunnar and yet they used it as a reason to send him down.

Their words and actions when it comes to left vs left are so odd and inconsistent. 

[Frobby]

5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s not unfortunate as much as it was a known issue…one the Os stated was the issue for Gunnar and yet they used it as a reason to send him down.

Their words and actions when it comes to left vs left are so odd and inconsistent. 

What’s unfortunate is that Holliday has only had 8 of 51 PA vs. LHP.   That’s unusually low.  For example, last year Norby (who played at Norfolk all year) had 27% of his PA vs. lefties.  So Holliday to date has gotten fewer PA against AAA lefties than we might have expected.  

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Frobby said:

What’s unfortunate is that Holliday has only had 8 of 51 PA vs. LHP.   That’s unusually low.  For example, last year Norby (who played at Norfolk all year) had 27% of his PA vs. lefties.  So Holliday to date has gotten fewer PA against AAA lefties than we might have expected.  

Difference of 6 at bats. That can get made up quickly.

[ArtVanDelay]

GraphsFan

2:31

Really loved the article and analysis of the Holliday-Orioles situation. So interesting when a FO Is bucking the trend of whatever the public deems the 'rational' decision. If you're a betting man, is Holliday up in a few days after 'working on his defense', or sometime late May / early June on account of Super 2? Even later, to preserve his rookie status and try for PPI in 2025?

 

Steve O

2:31

O's fans were really upset when I said the O's are holding down Jackson Holiday for service time. Just like they held down Adley at the end of 2021 (who got hurt in spring of 2022, so they ended up having a reason to hold him down in 2022. But then he placed 2nd in RoY anyways and he regained the year of service time.) It's all so silly. I mean they're running out some combination of Ramon Urias/Tony Kemp/Jorge Mateo/Jordan Westburg at 2B/3B every game lol

 

Ben Clemens

2:32

I'm not sure what the O's will do but I do stand by  my analysis: if they're holding him down, it's a bad move on the numbers

 

2:33

i truly don't get what they're doing. I think that they must really think he's not ready, but.... I mean, I don't agree

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, LookinUp said:

Once comfortable, I'd think it'll be apparent in a week or two. We just have the unknown question of how long it'll take a talented baseball lifer to get comfortable at a position that's very similar to what he grew up playing.

It just sounds like most of it is about familiarity. We know he can catch and throw, but his athletic movements are certainly different. Kind of like in football when a left tackle plays right tackle. Similar position, but things are kind of backwards.

Part of this is on the Orioles development side. Anyone who watched Gunnar last year knew he could be an everyday shortstop. So why didn't Holliday start getting regular starts at 2B vs SS? 

I mean I think they've done a pretty good job overall, but it does seem like if they have one weakness, their desire to make guys versatile has taken away from some of that experience at the positions the player is going to play in the big leagues the most.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

It’s not unfortunate as much as it was a known issue…one the Os stated was the issue for Gunnar and yet they used it as a reason to send him down.

Their words and actions when it comes to left vs left are so odd and inconsistent. 

They are inconsistent. They also never played Stowers against lefties despite his minor league career numbers saying he hits them better than righties. Gunnar was not good hitting left-handers in his minor league career and not surprisingly has been poor so far in his major league career. It's something that could limit his "superstardom" if he doesn't figure it out at some point.

[MDtransplant757]

6 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Part of this is on the Orioles development side. Anyone who watched Gunnar last year knew he could be an everyday shortstop. So why didn't Holliday start getting regular starts at 2B vs SS? 

I mean I think they've done a pretty good job overall, but it does seem like if they have one weakness, their desire to make guys versatile has taken away from some of that experience at the positions the player is going to play in the big leagues the most.

I think the idea was to see how well Gunnar could stick at SS versus 3B. If he's really good at SS but a human vaccum cleaner at 3B, having Holliday at SS makes more sense at that point. The opposite is what happened, so they adjust course. 

[Say O!]

For prospects who have elite talent, the Os have shown they prefer virtually ALL development to occur in the minors and these guys to arrive at the show “fully baked.”  It’s their approach and frustrating to fans who want to see the most exiting guys playing right away (me included).

Could Holliday hang in MLB today?  Of course (and that is what perplexing to evaluators).  Could he operate as lead off hitter for playoff team right now?  Because I think once he arrives in Baltimore he will bat lead off everyday against both LHP and RHP.

Edited April 8 by Say O!

[Warehouse]

Looking at Baseball Savant data, Jackson has seen 192 pitches, taken 75 swings, 2 foul tips, and 21 complete whiffs.  Inclusive of foul tips, that is a 30.7% whiff rate.  

Small sample size and he’s only 20 but I think that is at least mildly concerning for a player touted to have a 70 grade hit tool .  Among qualified MLB hitters it would put him slightly below Kyle Schwarber and slightly ahead of Luis Robert.  Jackson Merrill has a 13.8% whiff rate in MLB so far.

[Say O!]

46 minutes ago, Warehouse said:

Looking at Baseball Savant data, Jackson has seen 192 pitches, taken 75 swings, 2 foul tips, and 21 complete whiffs.  Inclusive of foul tips, that is a 30.7% whiff rate.  

Small sample size and he’s only 20 but I think that is at least mildly concerning for a player touted to have a 70 grade hit tool .  Among qualified MLB hitters it would put him slightly below Kyle Schwarber and slightly ahead of Luis Robert.  Jackson Merrill has a 13.8% whiff rate in MLB so far.

Thx for sifting the data and early observation.  It will be interesting to follow.  Jackson does have some swing & miss in his game (and that might always be there), but he does seem to make better/harder contact when putting bat to ball.

Just to add a bit more context, MLB average WHIFF% is 25%.  Freddie Freeman (who is probably a 70 hit tool guy) is right about average.  Bryce Harper and Shohei Ohtani are ~30%.

Edited April 9 by Say O!

[Sports Guy]

 

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Warehouse said:

Looking at Baseball Savant data, Jackson has seen 192 pitches, taken 75 swings, 2 foul tips, and 21 complete whiffs.  Inclusive of foul tips, that is a 30.7% whiff rate.  

Small sample size and he’s only 20 but I think that is at least mildly concerning for a player touted to have a 70 grade hit tool .  Among qualified MLB hitters it would put him slightly below Kyle Schwarber and slightly ahead of Luis Robert.  Jackson Merrill has a 13.8% whiff rate in MLB so far.

I don't have a concern at all. He's only struck out at a 15.7% rate and has 21.6% walk rate. I think what Holliday does is let it rip earlier in counts and then he's buttons that up with two strikes. He takes really good PAs.