Jackson Holliday 2024

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Wait till he can squat 800.

Exactly.  I thought I debunked that idea a month ago.

[OnlyOneOriole]

3 hours ago, e16bball said:

I think this point really has to be amplified to the fullest volume. Even at AAA, he is massively younger than pretty much anyone else out there.

Taking the top 50 guys at the AAA level across the minors by wRC+ (both IL and PCL), here is the breakdown by age:

24 years or older: 43 players

23 years old: 4 players (Kyle Manzardo, Jordan Beck, Jace Jung, Curtis Mead)

22 years old: 1 player (Coby Mayo)

21 years old: 1 player (James Wood)

20 years old: 1 player (Jackson Holliday)

Coby Mayo is the 3rd youngest top 50 hitter at the AAA level — and he’s two full years older than Jackson Holliday.

James Wood is the 2nd youngest top 50 hitter at the AAA level — and he’s 14 months older than Jackson Holliday.

The issue is, and this needs to be talked about, is was he so "Tiger Woodsed" by his dad, in other words pointed towards a sport and made to play that 24/7 (baseball and also with obvious talent) over other athletes that played many other sports besides baseball growing up......that has he had an advantage playing baseball specifically  as a kid?  And has had that advantage up to age 20 compared to kids who didn't devote as much time to baseball but are better athletes, who played many other sports, and who have a higher ceiling as a result?

Because I just do not see any sort of elite athleticism in JH.  I see a player who had been trained his entire life to play baseball and as a result is way ahead of most other players his age.  Not sure I see anything elite. 

[OnlyOneOriole]

3 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

Poor fields lead to errors quite often in the minors.  I’m not worried about errors.

Are they playing on HS fields filled with rocks and pot holes?

Cmon.  Either you are a good fielder or you aren't.   And this translates all the way from tee ball to travel league to HS to college to pro.

A field is a field.  I grew up playing shortstop on a field or marbles.  You could still tell who the good defenders were and who wasn't.

[Malike]

Good Lord, there are some embarrassingly bad takes in this thread, it's hilarious.

[ledzepp8]

3 minutes ago, Malike said:

Good Lord, there are some embarrassingly bad takes in this thread, it's hilarious.

What you don't like the take from our resident professional bowler who was all state in like 10 sports, with a smokeshow for a wife?

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, ledzepp8 said:

What you don't like the take from our resident professional bowler who was all state in like 10 sports, with a smokeshow for a wife?

I was thinking of a Title for the Autobiography:

From Marbles to the Bowl-O-Rama My Ever Growing Balls.

Edited June 13 by Can_of_corn
Sorry it didn't make sense before.

[baltfan]

3 hours ago, e16bball said:

Another way to look at the age thing might be by comparison to guys we know turned out to be good or even great players at the ML level.

Where were they at age 20? (2B Edition)

Robinson Cano: A+ / AA ball

Posted a .277 / .322 / .374 / .695 line for the full season, split between the two levels. Had his first above-average MLB season at age 22 (106 OPS+).

Chase Utley: College sophomore

Posted a .317 / .380 / .557 / .937 line for UCLA in the Pac 10. Had his first above-average MLB season at age 26 (132 OPS+).

Dustin Pedroia: College junior / A / A+ ball

Posted a .357 / .435 / .535 line across the two levels in 42 games after being drafted. Had his first above-average MLB season at age 23 (112 OPS+).

Jose Altuve: A / A+ ball

Posted a .301 / .357 / .448 / .805 line for the full season, split between the two levels. Had his first above-average MLB season at age 22 (101 OPS+).

Ian Kinsler: College sophomore

Posted a .230 / .246 / .262 / .508 line in just 29 games for Arizona State in the Pac 10. Had his first above-average MLB season at age 24 (105 OPS+).

Daniel Murphy: College sophomore

Posted a .329 / .381 / .429 / .810 line for Jacksonville State in the Atlantic Sun Conference. Had his first above-average MLB season at age 26 (126 OPS+).

Marcus Semien: College junior / A ball

Posted a .253 / .320 / .376 / .696 line after being drafted out of Cal. Had his first above-average MLB season at age 28 (139 OPS+).

Brian Roberts: College sophomore

Posted a whopping .353 / .453 / .601 / 1.054 line at North Carolina in the ACC. Had his first above-average MLB season at age 27 (139 OPS+).

Jordan Westburg: College sophomore

Posted a .294 / .402 / .457 / .859 line for Mississippi State in the SEC. Hopefully having his first above-average MLB season at age 25.

 

I think those are pretty much the best 2Bs of the last 20 years or so, plus a couple hometown favorites. If Jackson is destined to end up there, it’s pretty much undeniable that he is light years ahead of every single one of those guys at age 20. Which I think is pretty promising. 

Like all those guys, he may not have the crazy-loud tools of guys like Gunnar, Witt, and Acuna that are able to splash the MLB scene immediately at extremely young ages. Lower ceiling, probably. But seeing how his development compares to where guys like Cano, Altuve, and Utley were at comparable ages — miles ahead of them — feels pretty good when it comes to pegging his floor, not to mention his most probable outcomes.

Thank you for taking the time to make this post. It  is well thought out and well researched.  You make some compelling arguments.  

[Sports Guy]

12 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

Are they playing on HS fields filled with rocks and pot holes?

Cmon.  Either you are a good fielder or you aren't.   And this translates all the way from tee ball to travel league to HS to college to pro.

A field is a field.  I grew up playing shortstop on a field or marbles.  You could still tell who the good defenders were and who wasn't.

Please stop talking about you.  No one gives a f*** about anything to do with your life, your bowling ball, your wife or anything else you try to pat yourself on the back about.  Your life is meaningless to the rest of us.  Get that through your head.

And yes, fields can be an issue and he is a good fielder.  You don’t know what you are talking about.  Again, get that through your head.

He has had scouts, people around the game, etc…laud him for his defense and talk about how well he moves. He is learning and likely making dumb mistakes, like all players do. 
 

Errors mean very little without context and that is a well accepted opinion around the game. 
 

Have your doubts all you want..much less everything else you say on here, your take will look dumb soon enough.

 

Edited June 13 by Sports Guy

[Malike]

1 minute ago, ledzepp8 said:

What you don't like the take from our resident professional bowler who was all state in like 10 sports, with a smokeshow for a wife?

Bowlers are elite athletes. They walk 2 feet and throw a ball then go sit down until it's their turn again. They know what an elite athlete looks like.

[OnlyOneOriole]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Exactly.  I thought I debunked that idea a month ago.

Get this through your head once and for all.  Stop.  Just stop.  You are embarrassing yourself. 

No JH is not squatting 800 pounds, nor is he deadlifting 800 pounds...which is actually easier.  And not even close. NOT EVEN CLOSE.   For you to believe he does this tells me a lot about what you are willing to believe....which seems to be anything as long as it fits your narrative.  

The best of the best power lifters in the world....as in the people that devote their lives to power lifting, have trouble squatting even 550 pounds and deadlifting over 600 pounds.  And again, I am talking people that devote their every waking moment to power lifting.

 

Do you honestly think a 185 pound baseball player is squatting and deadlifting more than guys that do it professionally?  Do you honestly believe that the Orioles management is going to let him even try that kind of weight?  That is called SNAP city.  And trust me none of that weight would even budge if he tried.

 

Here is a video where he says his max bench is 300.  And he says he THINKS he can do that and in addition he has the use of pads and the slingshot...which makes it way easier.  Just for reference, I have max benched 425 and I am 51 years old and only weigh 210. He also says his max squat is 445 or so.  That is nothing.  I can tell you 10000000000000000s of guys, including me, who have squatted more.  Much more. 

So just stop with the hyperbole.  He is not some super strong kid.  He lifts about what every kid who lifts his size does.   Forgetting the fact that he gets the top of the top training that most kids don't.

Here is what squatting 800 pounds really looks like...ok?  This is maybe the most powerful powerlifter of all time.   Just stop.  Stop.  I don't want to embarrass you more.

 

[OnlyOneOriole]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

Exactly.  I thought I debunked that idea a month ago.

Here is a guy who has devoted his entire adult life to deadlifting 600 pounds.  Not 800.   600.  That is all he does.   He weighs more than JH and does not have to worry about injuring himself because he does not play for a MLB baseball team.

Again....just stop.

 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, OnlyOneOriole said:

Get this through your head once and for all.  Stop.  Just stop.  You are embarrassing yourself. 

No JH is not squatting 800 pounds, nor is he deadlifting 800 pounds...which is actually easier.  And not even close. NOT EVEN CLOSE.   For you to believe he does this tells me a lot about what you are willing to believe....which seems to be anything as long as it fits your narrative.  

The best of the best power lifters in the world....as in the people that devote their lives to power lifting, have trouble squatting even 550 pounds and deadlifting over 600 pounds.  And again, I am talking people that devote their every waking moment to power lifting.

 

Do you honestly think a 185 pound baseball player is squatting and deadlifting more than guys that do it professionally?  Do you honestly believe that the Orioles management is going to let him even try that kind of weight?  That is called SNAP city.  And trust me none of that weight would even budge if he tried.

 

Here is a video where he says his max bench is 300.  And he says he THINKS he can do that and in addition he has the use of pads and the slingshot...which makes it way easier.  Just for reference, I have max benched 425 and I am 51 years old and only weigh 210. He also says his max squat is 445 or so.  That is nothing.  I can tell you 10000000000000000s of guys, including me, who have squatted more.  Much more. 

So just stop with the hyperbole.  He is not some super strong kid.  He lifts about what every kid who lifts his size does.   Forgetting the fact that he gets the top of the top training that most kids don't.

Here is what squatting 800 pounds really looks like...ok?  This is maybe the most powerful powerlifter of all time.   Just stop.  Stop.  I don't want to embarrass you more.

 

You aren't embarrassing me.

You are the one that didn't realize the 800 pound comment was a joke.

[OnlyOneOriole]

11 minutes ago, ledzepp8 said:

What you don't like the take from our resident professional bowler who was all state in like 10 sports, with a smokeshow for a wife?

Go ahead.   I am a realist.  If you guys want to believe?  Believe all that you want to.  That is how cults are created.

[OnlyOneOriole]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

You aren't embarrassing me.

You are the one that didn't realize the 800 pound comment was a joke.

I saw what you posted a month ago.  It wasn't a joke.   You think JH is some sort of super elite mega athlete and used his power lifting numbers...which are nothing....as one reason to believe that.

I am telling you that you are 100% wrong. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, OnlyOneOriole said:

I saw what you posted a month ago.  It wasn't a joke.   You think JH is some sort of super elite mega athlete and used his power lifting numbers...which are nothing....as one reason to believe that.

I am telling you that you are 100% wrong. 

Well in order for me to be 100% wrong he's have to be what?  In a coma?  Suffering from full body paralysis?

I think he's a talented young man who put a lot of offseason work into getting stronger.