Ramon Urias 2024

[RZNJ]

11 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

Oh, like Adam Frazier.....

Frazier had been a good defender before last year.  Last year his defense cratered and they got Westburg up here and gave a lot of 2B time to Westburg.

[forphase1]

8 minutes ago, Pickles said:

The defensive stats on Frazier varied.  I felt his range was below average, but he made all the plays he got to, and turned a nice double play.

I'm not sure it's fair to say he was below average, nor is it fair to say they ran him out there everyday, particularly in the 2nd half.

He played in 141 games, or like 87% of the games played.  That's about as close to everyday as you can get.  For our infielders, only Henderson had more games played than Frazier.

His defense was poor, though there may be defense stats that said otherwise.  As noted in an article about Frazier possibly returning to the club this year -

Frazier’s defense, which according to FanGraphs was, well, dreadful. His -15 Outs Above Average at second base was easily the worst of any O’s fielder at any position. His -4 Defensive Runs Saved was second-worst only to Aaron Hicks in center field (-5). And Baseball Savant puts Frazier in the first percentile for range — meaning 99% of fielders have more range than him. It’s not pretty.

We can argue which defense numbers to use, but numbers THIS bad certainly calls into question just how much they REALLY valued defense IMO.

[forphase1]

7 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Frazier had been a good defender before last year.  Last year his defense cratered and they got Westburg up here and gave a lot of 2B time to Westburg.

While still playing Frazier in 141 games.  As you stated, his defense cratered, yet he STILL got into 141 games.  Sure sounds like defense is their #1 priority, no?    

[EdwinRip]

Mateo has looked shakey at 2nd along with O’Hearn in the outfield.  I don’t see this team valuing defense. I see them valuing veterans.

Edited April 5 by EdwinRip

[Pickles]

1 minute ago, forphase1 said:

He played in 141 games, or like 87% of the games played.  That's about as close to everyday as you can get.  For our infielders, only Henderson had more games played than Frazier.

His defense was poor, though there may be defense stats that said otherwise.  As noted in an article about Frazier possibly returning to the club this year -

Frazier’s defense, which according to FanGraphs was, well, dreadful. His -15 Outs Above Average at second base was easily the worst of any O’s fielder at any position. His -4 Defensive Runs Saved was second-worst only to Aaron Hicks in center field (-5). And Baseball Savant puts Frazier in the first percentile for range — meaning 99% of fielders have more range than him. It’s not pretty.

We can argue which defense numbers to use, but numbers THIS bad certainly calls into question just how much they REALLY valued defense IMO.

He started 100 games at 2b, and less as the year went on.  He was not an every 2b in the second of the season by any stretch.

FG has his defense as terrible; BRef has his defense as above average.  I know many prefer FG, and I'm not going down that road, but his defense was not universally panned by the statistics.

Now, I will say I believe they thought/hoped he'd be better defensively when they signed him.  And that he had regressed out there.

He also didn't start a game in the playoffs, so by the time the team was fully formed, he was not the starting 2b.

[Pickles]

5 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

While still playing Frazier in 141 games.  As you stated, his defense cratered, yet he STILL got into 141 games.  Sure sounds like defense is their #1 priority, no?    

That 141 is extremely misleading.

[forphase1]

6 minutes ago, Pickles said:

That 141 is extremely misleading.

But accurate...

[Frobby]

I think Frazier’s defense was below average last year, but had not been historically.   The O’s did cut his playing time as the year progressed.  He started 59 of 76 games at 2B before Westburg arrived (78%), and 48 of 86 afterwards (56%).   

What I’ve been seeing and reading about Holliday so far is not only some physical miscues, but also some mental errors (i.e., being slow to cover the bag on a few occasions).  That’s the type of thing you wouldn’t see with Frazier.  And you won’t see it with Holliday either, once he’s had enough reps to have a good feel for the position.   He just needs some time to get used to knowing where to be on certain plays, work on timing and angles at game speed, etc.   
 

[Pickles]

2 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

But accurate...

No it's not.

It's a "statistic" the obsures the truth.

He started 100 games at 2b, and less as the season wore on, and none in the playoffs.

He was not an everyday 2b for the Orioles.

[RZNJ]

20 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

While still playing Frazier in 141 games.  As you stated, his defense cratered, yet he STILL got into 141 games.  Sure sounds like defense is their #1 priority, no?    

Nice try.  He started 106 games at 2B.  I would guess the frequency of his starts decreased as the year went on.  They started the season committed to Frazier who, since 2018 had both strong DRS and OAA numbers.  He didn’t come as advertised.   They greatly reduced his time at 2B in the 2nd half.

[forphase1]

6 minutes ago, Pickles said:

No it's not.

It's a "statistic" the obsures the truth.

He started 100 games at 2b, and less as the season wore on, and none in the playoffs.

He was not an everyday 2b for the Orioles.

Sure he was.  Even you admit he started 100 games at 2nd.  Even that has him starting a majority of the games in 2023, roughly 62%, making him the 'everyday' 2b for the Orioles.  Now he certainly started less as the year went on, but as @Frobbynoted he STILL started 58% of them even after Westburg was called up.  

Point is simply that the use of Frazier as much as they did (whether you want to use the 141 games he played in or the 100 he started, whatever) goes against just how important defense is to the Os management.  They talk about it a great deal, but I'm not sure it's REALLY as heavily weighed as we think.  

[forphase1]

7 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Nice try.  He started 106 games at 2B.  I would guess the frequency of his starts decreased as the year went on.  They started the season committed to Frazier who, since 2018 had both strong DRS and OAA numbers.  He didn’t come as advertised.   They greatly reduced his time at 2B in the 2nd half.

Sure, they started using him less, but STILL started him 58% of the time AFTER Westburg was called up.  Now I don't disagree that he didn't come as advertised.  I expected his defense to be better and his offense to be worse, though offensively he wasn't good, but did have some very timely hits.  But even with his defense having cratered, he still started 106 out of 162 games, by your numbers.  Much more than I'd expected from a team that SO highly values defense.    

Anyway, I think we've exhausted this topic.  Maybe they can post a lineup for the game tonight that we can argue about instead.    

[RZNJ]

1 minute ago, forphase1 said:

Sure, they started using him less, but STILL started him 58% of the time AFTER Westburg was called up.  Now I don't disagree that he didn't come as advertised.  I expected his defense to be better and his offense to be worse, though offensively he wasn't good, but did have some very timely hits.  But even with his defense having cratered, he still started 106 out of 162 games, by your numbers.  Much more than I'd expected from a team that SO highly values defense.    

Anyway, I think we've exhausted this topic.  Maybe they can post a lineup for the game tonight that we can argue about instead.    

They aren’t my numbers.  You can find them in baseball reference.   Your number of 141, as Pickles said, was very misleading.

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

37 minutes ago, EdwinRip said:

Mateo has looked shakey at 2nd along with O’Hearn in the outfield.  I don’t see this team valuing defense. I see them valuing veterans.

O’Hearn should never play the outfield again given the options the Orioles have at the outfield position. 

[Three Run Homer]

One way or another, Urias is likely to be on this team for a while, so it would be nice if he started playing better.  He did get a hit that started a rally today, but he also made a poor play dropping the ball after the tag of O'Neil Cruz at 3B.   After one of the HR's today (I think Gunnar's?), the camera panned into the dugout for the congratulations line.  Ramon looked like he wanted to crawl into a hole.  He must be under awful pressure.