The 2024 Trade Deadline

[Bemorewins]

1 hour ago, 24fps said:

The 2020-2024 Chicago White Sox should be a cautionary tale for all of us.  A little bad luck and a few bad decisions is all it takes.

Thank you for sharing your perspective.

However a disagree totally and completely. It’s going to take WAY MORE than “a little bad luck” and “a few bad decisions”.

IMO it would take the worse luck ever and horrible decisions in the form of almost self-sabotage in order for us not to be competitive in the next 3 years at least. We have dynasty type assets. With smart decisions from baseball ops, meaningful financial backing from ownership, and a little good fortune, we could be the next Houston Astros.

[Allan Bryant]

2 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

So with a team that has Gunnar Henderson at age 22 (getting ready to turn 23), Adley Rutshman at 26, Jordan Westburg at 25, Colton Cowser at 24, Grayson Rodriguez at 24 (will be 25 later this season after the season), Ryan Mountcastle at 27, plus all of the talent at AAA; you think this team can crash and burn after this year? 

Were you just talking in hypotheticals? Or were you being serious in application to what the Orioles have right now?

I would challenge ANYONE to cite how one or two realistic trades can have next season or the season after that or even the one after that be 2018 or even 2017.

IMO we have at least 3 more World Series shots regardless of what we do at the deadline. And if we do a few extensions to players like Adley and Gunnar, we will have several more shots after that!

I struggle to see how that "window" talk or even comparisons to 2017/2018 are relevant to this situation (except that it is the same org and they wear pretty much the same uniforms except for the City Connect shirts).

No , this year’s Orioles will NOT crash and burn . I was using the 2018 Orioles as a reference, which they DID crash and burn.  The window for Orioles as a World Series contender opened last season. How long will it stay open ?   It depends on how Elias’s trades , FA , draft & international decisions work out . The better Elias does , the longer Orioles window stays open 

Edited June 18 by Allan Bryant

[Bemorewins]

18 minutes ago, Philip said:

Yes, I really don’t have a problem with the Flaherty trade. The cost was minimal.

I think that now, we need something a little bit more reliable.

The positive impact of Flaherty was even less than minimal. ONE SINGULAR good start. 

It was a very low risk/low reward move that didn’t allow us to potentially maximize on the ultimate outcome of the 2023 season. 

Hopefully the same mistake is not made again for 2024.

[interloper]

Elias had the right idea with Flaherty - he was just a year early I guess. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, interloper said:

Elias had the right idea with Flaherty - he was just a year early I guess. 

He wouldn't have been that cheap.

[Bemorewins]

9 minutes ago, Allan Bryant said:

No , this year’s Orioles will NOT crash and burn . I was using the 2018 Orioles as a reference, which they DID crash and burn.  The window for Orioles as a World Series contender opened last season. How long will it stay open ?   It depends on how Elias’s trades , FA , draft & international decisions work out . The better Elias does , the longer Orioles stays open 

IMO, it’s going to take more than Elias. He will need what he never had under Angelos, meaningful ownership support to make additions using all the avenues of team improvement, not just some.

Also, we will need the tremendous efforts from players like Henderson and Rutschman AND a little good fortune in order to MAXIMIZE our true to potential and become multiple World Series winners with this cast of characters.

[Allan Bryant]

2 hours ago, Bemorewins said:

I disagree about the Flaherty and Fujinama "acquisitions" (and I use that term VERY LOOSELY) last season. They both represented "unforced errors" and untimely hedging. Many (including myself) questioned the quality of the front part of our rotation beyond Bradish. It was hard to see that we had excellent depth in the starting rotation. But not the kind of quality up top to succeed through multiple rounds of the playoffs. Flaherty was literally one of the worse starting pitchers that was available. I understand that Elias was working on Cease. But you have to have a credible plan B. You can jump from plan A to plan F (break glass in case of emergency). Flaherty was so bad with us (IMO predictably) that he wasn't an option to start a postseason game and Fujinama wasn't even worth considering to appear on the roster. 

IMO those were hedging trades that were made trying to be as cheap as possible when the roster was already as lost costing as could be. I understand that spending is inevitably an ownership choice. So, hopefully without the stench of Scrooge McAngelos around this time, Elias won't have such limiting hinderances to deal with.

Scrooge McAngelos  ?  Good one !

[eddie83]

Someone may have already mentioned this. Jim Bowden mentioned yesterday by name Kopech and Pham with CWS. 
 

With Oakland Adams and Erceg. Said he thinks Doval would be a good fit with SF if they fall out of it. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, eddie83 said:

Someone may have already mentioned this. Jim Bowden mentioned yesterday by name Kopech and Pham with CWS. 
 

With Oakland Adams and Erceg. Said he thinks Doval would be a good fit with SF if they fall out of it. 

Pham would be interesting since it would be in sharp contrast to the school of thought that Elias cares about character in his players.

 

Edited June 18 by Can_of_corn

[RZNJ]

16 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

IMO, it’s going to take more than Elias. He will need what he never had under Angelos, meaningful ownership support to make additions using all the avenues of team improvement, not just some.

Also, we will need the tremendous efforts from players like Henderson and Rutschman AND a little good fortune in order to MAXIMIZE our true to potential and become multiple World Series winners with this cast of characters.

A little good fortune to be multiple WS winners?   Man, you are setting yourself up for some serious disappointment.    Is it possible?  Sure.   No one has been as consistently stacked as the Dodgers and they got one.   And they spend!

[Malike]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Pham would be interesting since it would be in sharp contrast to the school of thought that Elias cares about character in his players.

 

Where does Rougned Odor fall on the character scale? I honestly don't know, and I guess because it was Bautista, punching him in the face is A-Okay with O's fans.

[eddie83]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Pham would be interesting since it would be in sharp contrast to the school of thought that Elias cares about character in his players.

 

I agree. May just be smoke. 

[casadeozo]

6 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

A little good fortune to be multiple WS winners?   Man, you are setting yourself up for some serious disappointment.    Is it possible?  Sure.   No one has been as consistently stacked as the Dodgers and they got one.   And they spend!

In the Covid year no less!

[Bemorewins]

1 minute ago, RZNJ said:

A little good fortune to be multiple WS winners?   Man, you are setting yourself up for some serious disappointment.    Is it possible?  Sure.   No one has been as consistently stacked as the Dodgers and they got one.   And they spend!

It’s not like my bar is set where no other org has gone before.

I’m just saying afraid of big expectations. It’s how I live my life professionally and personally. It’s just how I’m wired. Maybe I will be disappointed but I believe in daring to dream big and going after greatness.

What drew me back to the O’s (after I became biter and uninterested due to the awfulness of the Angelos regime) was when I saw Elias being willing to undertake the task of an extreme tank. That was a sign to me that he has more in mind than mediocrity or just the possibility of competitiveness. But that he would try to chase greatness. And that was/is attractive to me.

[RZNJ]

4 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:

It’s not like my bar is set where no other org has gone before.

I’m just saying afraid of big expectations. It’s how I live my life professionally and personally. It’s just how I’m wired. Maybe I will be disappointed but I believe in daring to dream big and going after greatness.

What drew me back to the O’s (after I became biter and uninterested due to the awfulness of the Angelos regime) was when I saw Elias being willing to undertake the task of an extreme tank. That was a sign to me that he has more in mind than mediocrity or just the possibility of competitiveness. But that he would try to chase greatness. And that was/is attractive to me.

Well, he went for Jack Flaherty at the deadline last year.  When he doesn’t trade any of his top 3-4 prospects and doesn’t come up with the top 3-4 guys available at the deadline this year how strong will the love affair be then?