Trevor Rogers 2024

[Frobby]

22 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

As has been said before, what good are Trevor Roger’s two extra years of service time if he stinks?    

I assume they don’t think he will stink.  

[Sports Guy]

Oh I’m sure they thought he could help in the rotation now.  But no way did they ever think he was going to be some main piece for this year. He was, at best, a game 4 starter or reliever in the playoffs. He was never going to be counted on to be anything more than that and it’s not likely they thought he would start in the playoffs in 2024.

[Safelykept]

3 hours ago, Orioles0615 said:

 

https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/jorge-mateo-622761?stats=statcast-r-hitting-mlb

An average fielder who occainsionally makes a great play once in awhile like most average fielders. But because 2 years ago he had a great defensive year people think he is better than he actually is. Same with Urias

Who has played better 2nd base other Mateo this Year. Mateo as an average fielder. Wow good stuff.

[Too Tall]

 

 So Elias missed on a trade or it's effect is yet be determined. The Complaint of The Day. Like the season will rise or fall. Personally, I hope Richards wins the Cy Young Award next year! Not betting on it but what the hell. I like Norby and hope he will shine in Miami. I wish it were here but that wasn't to be. 

IMHO - Moose & SG nailed it!  By the way - FIRST PLACE ORIOLES! Disect that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Moose Milligan]

41 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Just because the Orioles may have ideas that would help Rogers doesn’t mean their intent wasn’t to plug him into their rotation and have him give them a chance to win every 5 days.  It absolutely was.   This was a present and future move and the present part of it isn’t looking so good.   If someone is trying to retroactively sell this as a 2025-26 move only, don’t buy it.  It’s complete BS.

There's no reason it can't be both.  

This is a mountain out of a molehill, really.  

[Aristotelian]

44 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Just because the Orioles may have ideas that would help Rogers doesn’t mean their intent wasn’t to plug him into their rotation and have him give them a chance to win every 5 days.  It absolutely was.   This was a present and future move and the present part of it isn’t looking so good.   If someone is trying to retroactively sell this as a 2025-26 move only, don’t buy it.  It’s complete BS.

Agreed, Elias said after the trade that he will step right into the rotation and that hasn't worked out. 

[forphase1]

3 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

That's possible.  I'm not sure what kind of rental we'd have received in return.

I'll also say here that the ridiculous, over the top takes on not being able to trade guys and have them go on to find success elsewhere is a little bizarre, too.  Like, people were happy to see Ortiz have success in Milwaukee but only because we got some significant value back for him in Burnes.  

Now that Burnes has been bad for the past month, I'm expecting the "Why'd we trade Ortiz and Hall for this guy?" comments to start cropping up.

Stowers and Norby seem like good guys and solid ballplayers with some flaws.  I want to see them do well wherever they go, just as long as it's not against us.  I want to see Norby become a great player, I want to see Stowers reach his potential.

This whole attitude that we have to "win" every trade by being the ones who come out ahead on talent and performance is absurd and just not living in any kind of reality.  That never happens no matter how good your GM or your talent evaluators are and it's stupid to think that way.  

I don't expect to win every trade.   But nor am I happy if we lose them.   At this point the Rogers for Norby/Stowers looks like a loser.  Rogers sucked and was demoted to AAA, and it's very doubtful he helps the 2024 Os at all, while Norby would look very good in our lineup right now with all the injuries.  As to Rogers remaining 2 years,  that's to be determined.   If Rogers sucks these next two years,  then who cares if we have control of him for 2 more years.   The added control is only a benefit of he can pitch effectively at the MLB, and so far that doesn't look promising.   

As to Rogers versus a two month rental,  it depends.   If the two month rental can help us win now versus Rogers never helping us win if the continues to be terrible the next 2 years,  then yeah,  I'd much rather have the rental.  The control is only a benefit of he's worth controlling that long.   Otherwise there isn't much value there.  Yes,  Rogers is still TBD, but the early result look really bad. 

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, forphase1 said:

I don't expect to win every trade.   But nor am I happy if we lose them.   At this point the Rogers for Norby/Stowers looks like a loser.  Rogers sucked and was demoted to AAA, and it's very doubtful he helps the 2024 Os at all, while Norby would look very good in our lineup right now with all the injuries.  As to Rogers remaining 2 years,  that's to be determined.   If Rogers sucks these next two years,  then who cares if we have control of him for 2 more years.   The added control is only a benefit of he can pitch effectively at the MLB, and so far that doesn't look promising.   

As to Rogers versus a two month rental,  it depends.   If the two month rental can help us win now versus Rogers never helping us win if the continues to be terrible the next 2 years,  then yeah,  I'd much rather have the rental.  The control is only a benefit of he's worth controlling that long.   Otherwise there isn't much value there.  Yes,  Rogers is still TBD, but the early result look really bad. 

I don't think worrying about wining and losing trades is in any way helpful.

I want to see a solid process.  The Burnes trade in my opinion was good process, the Fuji and Flaherty trades last season were not. 

[Moose Milligan]

10 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

I don't expect to win every trade.   But nor am I happy if we lose them.   At this point the Rogers for Norby/Stowers looks like a loser.  Rogers sucked and was demoted to AAA, and it's very doubtful he helps the 2024 Os at all, while Norby would look very good in our lineup right now with all the injuries.  As to Rogers remaining 2 years,  that's to be determined.   If Rogers sucks these next two years,  then who cares if we have control of him for 2 more years.   The added control is only a benefit of he can pitch effectively at the MLB, and so far that doesn't look promising.   

As to Rogers versus a two month rental,  it depends.   If the two month rental can help us win now versus Rogers never helping us win if the continues to be terrible the next 2 years,  then yeah,  I'd much rather have the rental.  The control is only a benefit of he's worth controlling that long.   Otherwise there isn't much value there.  Yes,  Rogers is still TBD, but the early result look really bad. 

But as pointed out above, Kikuchi was a 2 month rental and the Astros paid more to get him than what we gave up for Rogers.  So it's likely Norby/Stowers wouldn't have been enough to have landed him, or maybe someone like him.

People are well aware that we have Rogers for two more years and are also well aware that this regime has turned around guys like Bautista, Cano and Suarez but refuse to admit that it could happen with Rogers because it's more fun to be pissed off about losing a trade.  It's pretty ridiculous.

If Rogers is awful next year, I'll be upset about it but like I said no one wins 100% of the trades they make.  If the Orioles win the division this year, have a deep playoff run and are in the thick of it next year too, I think I'll figure out a way to cope with the Rogers trade.

[SemperFi]

2 hours ago, Safelykept said:

Who has played better 2nd base other Mateo this Year. Mateo as an average fielder. Wow good stuff.

This is where defensive metrics are blurred-they don't capture his relay precision or quick transfer or his back ups of first.  They don't capture blown relay assignments like Holliday has had or the missed DP's that Mateo turns easily because he has better footwork and body control at this point in his career.  I'm sure a pop up has fallen near him but I can't remember it.

Relays are a really important part of the game and his transfer (quickest I can remember) and accuracy kept guys from running,  It's not the same defense with him out.   The trade off is his hitting.

[forphase1]

35 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

But as pointed out above, Kikuchi was a 2 month rental and the Astros paid more to get him than what we gave up for Rogers.  So it's likely Norby/Stowers wouldn't have been enough to have landed him, or maybe someone like him.

People are well aware that we have Rogers for two more years and are also well aware that this regime has turned around guys like Bautista, Cano and Suarez but refuse to admit that it could happen with Rogers because it's more fun to be pissed off about losing a trade.  It's pretty ridiculous.

If Rogers is awful next year, I'll be upset about it but like I said no one wins 100% of the trades they make.  If the Orioles win the division this year, have a deep playoff run and are in the thick of it next year too, I think I'll figure out a way to cope with the Rogers trade.

Sure,  it could happen with Rogers.   But for every Bautisa/Cano/Suarez there are many we sign/acquire who never amount to anything.   Again,  the book isn't written yet on Rogers Os tenure, but so far it looks bleak.   And I also don't disagree that maybe Rogers was the best Elias could get for Norby/Stowers.  If that's the case,  then keeping them may have been smarter than trading them for Rogers.  I feel like there were other options,  but they were rentals and Elias, right or wrong,  valued the control more than I would have.  Regardless, Norby and Stowers are gone and we are stuck with Rogers.   Time will tell if we end up regretting that or not,  but currently,  sss, it looks likely. 

[ledzepp8]

7 hours ago, dystopia said:

Well yeah the whole point of trading assets is to get something of value in return.

Do you think Elias was offered something vastly better and said, "Nah, I'm going a different route"?

[ledzepp8]

3 hours ago, Safelykept said:

Who has played better 2nd base other Mateo this Year. Mateo as an average fielder. Wow good stuff.

Even if he's basically been average this season, it was his first real fulltime season at 2b. He started off rough but seemed to really get better before he got injured.

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, forphase1 said:

Sure,  it could happen with Rogers.   But for every Bautisa/Cano/Suarez there are many we sign/acquire who never amount to anything.   Again,  the book isn't written yet on Rogers Os tenure, but so far it looks bleak.   And I also don't disagree that maybe Rogers was the best Elias could get for Norby/Stowers.  If that's the case,  then keeping them may have been smarter than trading them for Rogers.  I feel like there were other options,  but they were rentals and Elias, right or wrong,  valued the control more than I would have.  Regardless, Norby and Stowers are gone and we are stuck with Rogers.   Time will tell if we end up regretting that or not,  but currently,  sss, it looks likely. 

Right, there are guys that never amount to anything.  

Rogers could be a guy that never amounts to anything.

Everyone should be able to agree that Stowers and Norby were candidates to get traded...as @Sports Guyhas pointed out, they were getting old for prospects.  I mean, Stowers made his debut in 2022, he hadn't been able to get consistent playing time here.  Norby had been in Norfolk since 2022, he hadn't been able to crack the lineup here.

What would the purpose of keeping them be?  A good GM trades guys he knows are blocked so they can go on to have good careers.  That's part of it.  There might have been a spot for Stowers next year, there probably wasn't going to be an infield spot for Norby.   And again, Stowers and Norby were mentioned so many times around here as trade pieces for months on end.

But back to Rogers, he could be a guy that doesn't amount to anything.  But if the holes in the bullpen and rotation get shored up, so what?  

You win some, you lose some.  Seriously, the idea that we let two guys get away who might go on to be good players elsewhere and the pearl clutching that has happened after is getting ridiculous.  Like, where'd Stowers and Norby fit into the long term plans?  Especially after practically everyone on this message board had been in favor of trading them since last offseason?

 

[forphase1]

22 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Right, there are guys that never amount to anything.  

Rogers could be a guy that never amounts to anything.

Everyone should be able to agree that Stowers and Norby were candidates to get traded...as @Sports Guyhas pointed out, they were getting old for prospects.  I mean, Stowers made his debut in 2022, he hadn't been able to get consistent playing time here.  Norby had been in Norfolk since 2022, he hadn't been able to crack the lineup here.

What would the purpose of keeping them be?  A good GM trades guys he knows are blocked so they can go on to have good careers.  That's part of it.  There might have been a spot for Stowers next year, there probably wasn't going to be an infield spot for Norby.   And again, Stowers and Norby were mentioned so many times around here as trade pieces for months on end.

But back to Rogers, he could be a guy that doesn't amount to anything.  But if the holes in the bullpen and rotation get shored up, so what?  

You win some, you lose some.  Seriously, the idea that we let two guys get away who might go on to be good players elsewhere and the pearl clutching that has happened after is getting ridiculous.  Like, where'd Stowers and Norby fit into the long term plans?  Especially after practically everyone on this message board had been in favor of trading them since last offseason?

 

Again,  I'm fine with trading both Stowers and Norby, even though we could use Norby now.   But neither had a long term future with the Os.  But that doesn't mean I wanted to just give them away,  and right now that's what this feels like.   Rogers looks like a guy we could have picked up off of the waiver wire.   I don't really care that either was traded,  just that we apparently got nothing for them.   I think we could have gotten a rental that could be helping in the rotation or bullpen now,  instead of a guy we had to demote.  I'd love to be wrong and Rogers be a pillar in the starting 5 for the next 2 years.   But that's looking very unlikely.