Poll: Are you disappointed with the lack of international signings?

[Sports Guy]

Well that's a simpleton's view of the matter, at least in the formative years of setting up a DR network.

Signing people isn't all that matters right now. Its all that will help us immediately in terms of adding talent, but it doesn't tell the longer-term picture entirely. Its not all that will help us years from now in terms of adding talent. That is a more complicated question, with a more intricate answer.

LOL...Hey Mackus...True or False...Money matters?

Sorry but you are an apologist...End of the day, you put the money on the table and all of this bs that you keep bringing up is meaningless.

The Orioles are involved with Sano and reportedly, NO ONE ELSE! They haven't put the money on the table to make a damn bit of a difference.

That's a fact...You can search for all the reasons and excuses you want but at the end of the day, it always comes back to one thing..MONEY!

If the Orioles are serious about this, then they need to spend it..if not, stop wasting time down there.

[TyCobb]

LOL...Hey Mackus...True or False...Money matters?

Sorry but you are an apologist...End of the day, you put the money on the table and all of this bs that you keep bringing up is meaningless.

The Orioles are involved with Sano and reportedly, NO ONE ELSE! They haven't put the money on the table to make a damn bit of a difference.

That's a fact...You can search for all the reasons and excuses you want but at the end of the day, it always comes back to one thing..MONEY!

If the Orioles are serious about this, then they need to spend it..if not, stop wasting time down there.

I sure hope AM doesn't just throw money out because he needs some token signings....

[Stotle]

I believe the draft has the best value signings for a MLB team. I won't be surprised to see international signings to have a lot less future value than drafts.

I think the Oakland Athletics agree with you.

[TonySoprano]

The Orioles are involved with Sano and reportedly, NO ONE ELSE! They haven't put the money on the table to make a damn bit of a difference.

That's a fact...You can search for all the reasons and excuses you want but at the end of the day, it always comes back to one thing..MONEY!

It's possible but it's not a certifiable *fact*. For example, there's supposedly at least one mystery team involved in the Sano negotiatons. It hasn't been reported who that team is, but to that team, it's a *fact* they're involved. It would be a *fact* in the Orioles case if there was a report that they're putting all their eggs in the Sano basket and nowhere else.

[Sports Guy]

I think the Oakland Athletics agree with you.

But they are also using Int'l signings as well.

The thing about the draft is that these guys have done something against HS or college players...Int'l talent? Who knows.

So, I would tend to agree that the "local" draft is more of a sure thing but the Int'l players, as a whole, may be the higher upside.

[Sports Guy]

It's possible but it's not a certifiable *fact*. For example, there's supposedly at least one mystery team involved in the Sano negotiatons. It hasn't been reported who that team is, but to that team, it's a *fact* they're involved. It would be a *fact* in the Orioles case if there was a report that they're putting all their eggs in the Sano basket and nowhere else.

Well, it is a fact that we aren't connected to anyone else, at least reportedly.

[Sports Guy]

I sure hope AM doesn't just throw money out because he needs some token signings....

I agree..I don't want token signings either.

[Stotle]

But they are also using Int'l signings as well.

The thing about the draft is that these guys have done something against HS or college players...Int'l talent? Who knows.

So, I would tend to agree that the "local" draft is more of a sure thing but the Int'l players, as a whole, may be the higher upside.

Shrug. I don't think any blanket statements work. Ynoa was a special case considering his stuff and age. It doesn't surprise me that Oakland would jump at that. I think this year in particular indicates that Oakland sees some more value in the draft than other teams -- particularly the idea potentially overpaying a bit now to save a bit more, later on.

[glenn__davis]

As far as I am concerned, I am extremely disappointed.

I believe one can look back at quotes from MacPhail over the past year and conclude we've been led to believe we would be a more involved organization in signing these international amateur talents. I do not believe we are at the point in acquiring this talent than we were told we would be as of now.

We may be signing up lots of ultra-cheap talent, but that's not been passed along and that's not what I expect. We should be signing several kids with signing bonuses over $250k annually.

If we get to that point next year, I can be patient about it, but I thought AM asked for a year to understand the international market (which was up a year ago) and build a scouting organization to acquire talent. I do not see the results.

Bingo bango.

It's actually a tough situation to gauge, because there's so little information out there. But I definitely expected us to be more involved this year. You can say it takes time to set-up, but how long does that excuse last?

Like hoosiers, I'm perfectly willing to wait a year or two if it truly takes that long to set up. But I'm disappointed that we haven't done more there.

[Frobby]

The Orioles are involved with Sano and reportedly, NO ONE ELSE! They haven't put the money on the table to make a damn bit of a difference.

Where do people get their information about who is being signed in the DR or other places? We have 1.5 teams in the Dominican League, so where do the players on those teams come from? How many of them did we ever hear of at the time they were signed? Of the top young Dominican players now in the majors, what kind of signing bonuses did they receive, and were they publicized at the time?

These aren't rhetorical questions. I don't follow the international scene at all, and I'm just curious about these things.

[BeerIsFood]

I love how we all know basically nothing for a fact yet continue to pretend we know everything, all the in's and out's of the front office...

We don't know the situation, period.

We can read all the "reports" and the "speculation" and try to pull facts out of our arses, but the bottom line is, we...know...nothing...about...the...situation...except...what...we...are...being...fed...by...the...media...and...the...front...office.

And we are supposed to believe that like it's the gospel.

For the record I voted yes because I just don't see how you can vote otherwise but...

1. AM inherited an absolute mess, more than I think we can even comprehend.

2. We are just setting up shop in LA for all intents and purposes...we are babies in this area...

3. We can read Forbes or look at the "money" we were "supposedly throwing" at Teixeira and say we HAVE the money, but the fact is...we are once again reading between the lines. We don't know the financial situation this organization is in...I am sorry, we just don't. We can site MASN, and blah blah blah all we want, but at the end of the day, WE DON'T KNOW! We just don't...

4. I am not an AM apologist, I just think it's silly to keep pretending we know the whole situation and judge it as so, when in reality we know very little and just piece together info from here and info from there to determine that we have tons of money to throw here there and everywhere, among other things.

I believe that given the time, the front office will turn this around...not in OUR time, not when WE want it done, not when WE think it's the best time...but when THEY think it's the best time (cue sarcastic remarks).

Personally, I think I will trust the guys in the know, and not the guys on this board who think they know everything going on in the front office.

(Cue hateful remarks towards me and my opinion)...which I will not respond to, I'm not opening this thread again, it's just silly. Yes I am disappointed, but I dont know WTF is going on in that front office and neither...do...YOU!

[Stotle]

Bingo bango.

It's actually a tough situation to gauge, because there's so little information out there. But I definitely expected us to be more involved this year. You can say it takes time to set-up, but how long does that excuse last?

Like hoosiers, I'm perfectly willing to wait a year or two if it truly takes that long to set up. But I'm disappointed that we haven't done more there.

It's just scary. Look at an organization like Texas. Reports/estimates are that they have fully integrated all levels of their scouting, so their scouts in LA are tapped into the advance scouts, are tapped into the US amateur scouts, are tapped into MiL scouts. The result is an ability to share information and get feedback across all levels. Further, when someone in the front office wants info on a MiLer, they have access to what the MiL scouts and LA/US amateur scouts have on the players, without having to go through separate chains.

Now, perhaps BAL is doing this, too. But it's just a reminder that winning the recruiting game in Latin America means much more than just setting up an academy. It's getting established, earning trust, setting up programs for kids coming into your organization (speaking english -- which is handled in part by a lot of buscons, showing a support structure at the various lower-levels, including the presence of other LA kids, etc.), and seeing tangible results (being able to point to a LA player that your have brought-up through your organization -- someone who can speak with the kids being courted and who will be able to talk up the organization when he returns in the off-season).

Lots of rambling, but I guess I'm just trying to say getting in on the players is really a midway point, and not an end point. I'd like to get to that midway point sooner, rather than later, but I honestly don't have a timeline simply because I don't know enough about the process. As others have said, seeing Oakland, Pittsburgh, Minnesota make moves is disheartening.

[Satyr3206]

A few points I haven't seen.

Does anyone really know what revenues are available for signing prospects? There is a recession going on.

Sano has only worked out for the Orioles and other teams. No real game scouting. That alone would make me wary. Not to mention the age issue.

I would like to see the Orioles sign some kids from the DR but this may not be the right time considering the economy and the players on the market this year. But I have very little doubt the FO is closely monitoring the situation and will move when they feel it's prudent. That has been MacPhail's MO the entire time he has been here.

[Stotle]

Where do people get their information about who is being signed in the DR or other places? We have 1.5 teams in the Dominican League, so where do the players on those teams come from? How many of them did we ever hear of at the time they were signed? Of the top young Dominican players now in the majors, what kind of signing bonuses did they receive, and were they publicized at the time?

These aren't rhetorical questions. I don't follow the international scene at all, and I'm just curious about these things.

Big sources like Baseball America tend to only announce five-figure signings or higher, and sometimes not even five-figure signings. You could contact the team directly for a list of signings. Most of the highly-touted kids don't start Rookie ball in the US until age 17 or 18.

[Flosman]

But the other teams are signing guys.

You see, so many of you have jumped on Bigbird recently but this is what he is talking about...The more time we waste not getting better, the farther away we get from Boston and NY...they are making these moves..They are doing the neccassary things and then, on top of that, they are starting way ahead of us to begin with.

Bigbird has talked about how when all of our young guys are ready to be very good, the Yanks and Sox will be going through the same thing and they will be able to spend more and have more depth.

Every day, week, month, year that goes by where AM isn't drastically improving things, we fall that much further behind the big boys.

Have relationships down there is important...But money rules all...The Orioles aren't down there throwing around the money as much as they need to be..Its that simple.

SG I quoted you but this post is not really about your post in particular but rather the line of thinking it represents. I have always had a problem with this line but have not until just now been able to really wrap my head around what the problem was. Here it goes. By not signing players today we are not falling farther behind the Yanks and Bosox, IMO. We may be delaying when we might catch up to them, but they already are the best teams in baseball and really are not getting better by these moves. They are maintaining thier status not really improving it. I can actually make a case that the infastructure being put in place today is more important than the current signings. No matter what any of us think the O's do have a finite amount of resourses and can not make the number of mistakes that the competition can make (talking here about MFY and Bosox). So putting the peices in place to promote successful signings is really the key IMO. It is kind of like the faith Jordan has garnered by showing he is pretty good at handling the draft. It sounds has if the O's really like Sano and atleast might be making and offer. To me it is not the end of the world if he signs elsewhere. What I would be really dissapointed to hear is that we are not making the scouting and development committment in the international arena. Now of course this excuse does not fly forever but I think it still does today.