It's time for the next step

[Mackus]

That's fine. But implied in his ".500 goal" is the idea that McPhail has not done his job if we don't reach it.

Which is flawed, considering that in all likelihood he is going to put a lineup out there on OD (or shortly after depending on Bell/Snyder) that could meet those expectations.

The rest relies on player development...I'm pessimistic, he's optimisitc....but he's trying to make it a formula .500+ = success for AM, -.500 = failure for AM. That's BS.

I agree, you can't be as archaic as he's failed if we aren't a .500 team next year.

However, if we aren't a .500 team next year or very close to it, I will really start to seriously question the rebuild. Questioning if the guys he has brought in are going to be able to improve enough to get us to where we need to go. And if we are below .500 next year, I'd be much more aggressive in the FA market to add guys to replace anybody who hasn't produced up to the levels we are expecting. If we're not contending, not just above .500 but being a legit contender all season long (not necessarily the playoffs but I wanna have a good shot) in 2011 then I'm confidant I'll have considered MacPhail's rebuild to be taking too long at best and depending on the exact record potentially a failure at worst.

[PitchingWins]

That's fine. But implied in his ".500 goal" is the idea that McPhail has not done his job if we don't reach it.

Which is flawed, considering that in all likelihood he is going to put a lineup out there on OD (or shortly after depending on Bell/Snyder) that could meet those expectations.

The rest relies on player development...I'm pessimistic, he's optimisitc....but he's trying to make it a formula .500+ = success for AM, -.500 = failure for AM. That's BS.

I don't know it seems like a pretty simple formula to me. +.500 record = winning team = success ..... -.500 team = losing team = failing.

[Sports Guy]

What on earth? Wow, you're such a jackass...

Name calling now huh? Very classy and mature. Although, that is too be expected by you..Anything to steer away from baseball..Its actually pretty smart by you...Stay with what you know, not what you don't know.

You changed the topic. I was and have been talking about how we don't need to go out and force things...how I'm happy with the talent...how some type of stupid move for AGon or whoever lacks foresight. This was all directed to Trea and those of similar thoughts.

Directed at Jtrea but you were having a conversation with me and quoting me? Wow, that's interesting.

And, as you pointed out, you were talking about the conversation that you had with me the other day...So yes, you were having 2 different conversations, as I said..Thanks for proving my point.

You have some stupid # in your head, some barometer founded in nothing but your impatient expectations as a fan...if the team is constructed well (which it is) it makes no difference to me if they finish with 85 wins or 75 wins in 2010. The records in 2011 and 2012 are different stories.

My expectation for 2010 is for them to let Bell/Snyder play, keep the rotation as is with a possible exception of one legit pitcher (and Lackey's not going to happen, so that expectation is--as you like to put it--"wrong"), find a SS solution and make bullpen additions. That's my expectation. Could that team win +.500 maybe...I don't think they will, they'll come close. But that's an argument I care less about and one that is pretty much pointless when you consider the construct of the team.

Glad for all of this..Good to know that you think AM isn't being realistic...as well as 80% of this board.

This has already all been explained to you but maybe big words were used or something..not sure.

[Sports Guy]

That's fine. But implied in his ".500 goal" is the idea that McPhail has not done his job if we don't reach it.

Which is flawed, considering that in all likelihood he is going to put a lineup out there on OD (or shortly after depending on Bell/Snyder) that could meet those expectations.

The rest relies on player development...I'm pessimistic, he's optimisitc....but he's trying to make it a formula .500+ = success for AM, -.500 = failure for AM. That's BS.

So now you are putting words into my mouth? LOL

Please, stop while you are behind.

[Sports Guy]

Where has AM said he expects us to be .500 next season?

Remember in June 2007...AM said his goal isn't to be .500, his goal is to win championships.

We can go 79-83 next season and that can be a resounding success if we are poised to improve on that going into 2011, both internally, and externally if it's obvious we are close.

Obviously, I'm not arguing that AM's final goal would be .500 if he was hoping for that next year. He likely wants the team to come together as the core going forward, and improve from April-September both as a team and individually.

But it is foolish to put a win total out there as the basis for success/failure when we are not expecting to contend regardless of that number.

AM has clearly stated this types of intentions in his interviews.

He clearly expects a much better and more competitive team next year...He has been pretty obvious that this year is rebuilding and less about wins and also gearing towards 2010 and beyond.

Anyone listening to the man talk should be able to figure this out from what he is saying.

Has he specifically said 500 or better? I am not sure....But I would be willing to bet to expects a 6-10 win improvement next year..at least. I would bet that he is bringing up the young guys now to get their feet wet to gear towards next year...Again, this should be obvious to all.

[ejf1025]

So now you are putting words into my mouth? LOL

Please, stop while you are behind.

LOL. This is what you said the other day. You decided to take this conversation down the disrespectful path...I mean, what kind of a-hole tells someone there expectation is wrong. An expectation? You may not agree....but "wrong." Ha, methinks the big words are more troubling for you.

And what exactly do you expect AM to say? Geez, I dont care if we win....500 not a goal at all. Of course your goal is better than .500....your goal should be to win it all.

So pray tell, what exactly is your point? What happens if we don't finish above .500 old baseball sage? He plays all these young guys you've been hemming and hawing for for years and they stumble...then what??

Fire McPhail?

[Sports Guy]

LOL. This is what you said the other day. You decided to take this conversation down the disrespectful path...I mean, what kind of a-hole tells someone there expectation is wrong. An expectation? You may not agree....but "wrong." Ha, methinks the big words are more troubling for you.

And what exactly do you expect AM to say? Geez, I dont care if we win....500 not a goal at all. Of course your goal is better than .500....your goal should be to win it all.

So pray tell, what exactly is your point? What happens if we don't finish above .500 old baseball sage? He plays all these young guys you've been hemming and hawing for for years and they stumble...then what??

Fire McPhail?

And then what did I say...I said that he should ptu a team on the field that is a 500 or better capable team..I further went on to explain myself and you said, fair enough and the conversation went from there.

So spare me this crap..Its a waste of my time.

[ejf1025]

AM has clearly stated this types of intentions in his interviews.

He clearly expects a much better and more competitive team next year...He has been pretty obvious that this year is rebuilding and less about wins and also gearing towards 2010 and beyond.

Anyone listening to the man talk should be able to figure this out from what he is saying.

Has he specifically said 500 or better? I am not sure....But I would be willing to bet to expects a 6-10 win improvement next year..at least. I would bet that he is bringing up the young guys now to get their feet wet to gear towards next year...Again, this should be obvious to all.

It is.

Everyone gets that we should get better. Everyone gets that he brought young players up so they learn.

SO...AGAIN....WHAT HAPPENS WHEN ROOKIES AND FIRST YEAR PLAYERS STUMBLE AND DON'T MAKE .500?

What are you going to be saying next? Fire McPhail...he did basically everything I wanted but who would have thought that a bunch of young players would struggle a bit...we should have traded them for AGon!!! We should have spent 100 million on Lacket!!!

[ejf1025]

And then what did I say...I said that he should ptu a team on the field that is a 500 or better capable team..I further went on to explain myself and you said, fair enough and the conversation went from there.

So spare me this crap..Its a waste of my time.

LOL. When should this team be put on the field? In 2011....YES...I have said that's a different story.

...what have I said that is wrong?

[Sports Guy]

Clearly you're mistake is assuming that competitive and much better team equals 82 wins. It's that simple. AM wouldn't be foolish enough to put a win total on progress for next season.

No but you can bet that AM expects the team to be much more competitive next year...You can bet that he expects the team to not be pathetic for months at a time...That he doesn't expect a collapse, etc...

If you expect all of those things, then a 500+ record is something you would expect...We have a team like that now, that is pathetic and terrible in long stretches and they are still winning 70ish games.

Just takes common sense to take it further and figure out what he means wins wise.

[ejf1025]

No but you can bet that AM expects the team to be much more competitive next year...You can bet that he expects the team to not be pathetic for months at a time...That he doesn't expect a collapse, etc...

If you expect all of those things, then a 500+ record is something you would expect...We have a team like that now, that is pathetic and terrible in long stretches and they are still winning 70ish games.

Just takes common sense to take it further and figure out what he means wins wise.

WHAT IS YOUR POINT???

"The GM expects a better team next year."

Groundbreaking.

[Sports Guy]

LOL. When should this team be put on the field? In 2011....YES...I have said that's a different story.

...what have I said that is wrong?

No..it should be on the field in 2010...AM expects us and most of expect it.

You don't, that's fine..but to act like it is some ridiculous notion is pathetic and goes against everything AM has been saying.

[Sports Guy]

WHAT IS YOUR POINT???

"The GM expects a better team next year."

Groundbreaking.

MY POINT IS THAT YOU ARE COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WRONG FOR EXPECTING US TO BE BAD NEXT YEAR!!!

My point is that practically everyone, including the Orioles FO, disagrees with you.

And for you to think that it is wrong of all of us to expect us to be much more competitive next year is ridiculous.

I tell you what..you have some low standards...You are fine with us being pathetic and not competitive next year..Unreal.

[PitchingWins]

MY POINT IS THAT YOU ARE COMPLETELY AND UTTERLY WRONG FOR EXPECTING US TO BE BAD NEXT YEAR!!!

My point is that practically everyone, including the Orioles FO, disagrees with you.

And for you to think that it is wrong of all of us to expect us to be much more competitive next year is ridiculous.

I tell you what..you have some low standards...You are fine with us being pathetic and not competitive next year..Unreal.

Guys, I respect your opinions, both of them. I have my feelings on who is right, but that is still just my opinion, and isn't relevant to this thread. Can we drop this argument and get back to the thread. There is obviously a next step. What that is everyone differs on. I think the next step is seeing what we can get out of our players through the first half of next season. Maybe adding a cost effective arm in the off season.

[Sports Guy]

Yes, he thinks we should be more consistently competitive and have more wins. Again, that doesn't mean .500.

Furthermore, you, me, and many others have been calling for this team.

Don't you think it's a bit hypocritial to call for a team, have that team fall short of where you think it should be because 1st and 2nd year players struggle (no way!) and then say that AM wasn't right in making up the team?

I am not even remotely saying this.

I am fine with the bulk of the team...But AM should do things this offseason to make us better.

If we go into OD next year with a team that isn't likely to win more 75 games and that is exactly what ends up happening, then we should go into the offseason with a new GM.

This bs of winning 70 games every year ain't gonna cut it.

Next year should be a big stepping stone year...If we win 79 games and have a really nice team in place, that's fine. If we struggle because we have a lot of injuries, that's fine....It happens...But if we struggle because AM has done a poor job of constructing the team and filling holes, then that's not fine.