The worst theory in the history of the OH

[Sports Guy]

Did you ever do a list of goofy things people ask?

You get much goofier questions in the ticket booths than you do on the tours.

A lot of the tours is dealing with a bunch of loud 8 year olds who could care less about what you have to say.

[RShack]

You get much goofier questions in the ticket booths than you do on the tours.

Like what?

[Moose Milligan]

Like what?

Can you imagine SG walking around OPACY with a bunch of obnoxious 8 year olds?

:rofl::rofl:

[Sports Guy]

Can you imagine SG walking around OPACY with a bunch of obnoxious 8 year olds?

:rofl::rofl:

Its kind of like being on this board..only the 8 year olds are more knowledgable.

[Sports Guy]

Like what?

We would get asked where the warehouse was...when we were sitting in the warehouse selling the tickets.

We would have down to standing room only....people would ask if they have seats...or if they had to stand in a certain spot the whole game.

We would have scattered single tickets left and we would be asked if they were next to each other.

[Bradysburns]

I'm sorry, but this has to be discussed.

This argument that all the Orioles care about is Peter Angelos' pockets is downright absurd. I've seen it creep up more and more in recent weeks. It seems almost to be a conspiracy theory of sorts...that the Orioles don't care about winning, that the Orioles don't care about putting a competitive product on the field. All they care about is making money and that's it.

It's ridiculous for a number of reasons:

1. The early years in PA's ownership where we were winners, where OPACY was sold out every night, where our payroll was higher than anyone elses and when we made the playoffs two years in a row.

It's an example of PA's competitiveness and will to win. Yes, finances were different back then but every single Orioles fan LOVED Peter Angelos and what he was bringing to the table when he took ownership.

It's not like he sunk this ship from the jump.

2. It just doesn't make sense.

At all.

It just doesn't make sense at all.

Angelos would stand to make even MORE MONEY if he put a winning product on the field. If he sold the place out every night with a winning team, he could charge more for tickets, more for concessions...he could charge more and make more money in just about every arena possible. And guess what? With that money he could purchase one of those big sexy free agents this board is obsessed with.

Don't get it twisted, I'm not some Angelos apologist...I don't think he's a great owner by any stretch of the imagination. He's done a lot of stupid, stupid things and I wouldn't even know where to start by listing them all. Everything from bad front office hires, to bad player decisions to destroying relationships with all time Orioles greats...he's done a LOT wrong.

And I understand that we all have differing views on how this team should be built. We all want what's best for the franchise, we just have different views on how to get there.

But if you think for a minute that Angelos just fields a team to collect a profit and doesn't care what the W/L columns say...to borrow a favorite phrase from SG, "you're just wrong."

Think about it. If you were a business owner (of any business, not just a sports franchise) would you ever be satisfied to just being run of the mill? Average? Would you just settle for mediocrity (or in this case, sucking) when your competitors were routinely wiping the floor with you?

If you had any pride you'd try to do whatever you can to get a leg up despite some significant disadvantages. You might make some dumb decisions along the way, as Angelos has.

But wouldn't you get a little ticked off if anyone questioned whether or not you wanted to get better because you made a profit as it is? Why would anyone want to leave more business on the table?

I agree that the idea of Angelos viewing the O's as a cash machine is absurd. But I don't know how many people are suggesting that he's raking in cash from the Orioles as, like, a primary source of income.

My issue in the past has been: He seems to view the Birds as HIS little toy, rather than as a public trust. And therefore, he has let his own pride and ego affect baseball decisions, to the point where his seemingly spiteful personality comes before what's right for the team.

The Davey Johnson split, which was totally Angelos' fault IMO, would be the number-one example. And so, too, would running off Pat Gillick. Then after the team made some unfortunate FA signings, it seemed he wanted to punish the sniveling fan base for their insolence (how dare you criticize me for spending money on free agents!) by "giving them what they wanted." And that was no more expensive FA's.

But he seemed, to me, to take that to an extreme level. Like a little kid taking his toys away, in order to "show" the other kids how stupid they were.

Maybe I'm reading a lot into PA's psychology. But this is just the sense I got, going back years.

I do believe people can change, however. And I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, along with AM. The next two years will tell a LOT.

[bej6789]

I did a report on Angelos a few years back, and to be honest... I was shocked at the kind of man he is. This isn't to say he's the best owner, because, clearly -- stats speak for themselves. However, the amount of work and money that he has put into making the city of Baltimore a better place is unreal. Massive donations to the University of Baltimore Law School, representing workers in the face of larger corporations -- it's truly remarkable the amount of work he's done.

I get it, he's not the best owner. But all this hatred towards him seems a tad extreme. The man, whether we realize it or not, truly loves the city of Baltimore. Mark my words, it's only a matter of time before this thing is turned around on the diamond. If I was a betting man, it'll be on Angelos's watch.

[Sports Guy]

I did a report on Angelos a few years back, and to be honest... I was shocked at the kind of man he is. This isn't to say he's the best owner, because, clearly -- stats speak for themselves. However, the amount of work and money that he has put into making the city of Baltimore a better place is unreal. Massive donations to the University of Baltimore Law School, representing workers in the face of larger corporations -- it's truly remarkable the amount of work he's done.

I get it, he's not the best owner. But all this hatred towards him seems a tad extreme. The man, whether we realize it or not, truly loves the city of Baltimore. Mark my words, it's only a matter of time before this thing is turned around on the diamond. If I was a betting man, it'll be on Angelos's watch.

People hate him as an owner, not a human being.

He has turned a once proud franchise into a punchline...He deserves everything hurled at him.

[El Gordo]

I wonder how many of PA critics here, know much about the man, outside of baseball. He has been a poor owner, but is not a bad man IMO. Unless you have a political ax to grind.

"Angelos is well known for various acts of charity and philanthropy, having contributed millions to civic and community institutions around Maryland. He is the largest individual donor to the University of Baltimore and pledged $5 million to the school in 2008."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Angelos

[TCAlumni9700]

You're right it is ridiculous to argue that all PA wants is to make the best profits. I don't think that's the case. That argument of such extreme positions isn't very interesting, though.

I don't think his main priority is winning. I think he read Moneyball three years after its publication and became a late converter.

When Rosenthal published that the Orioles were going to have a yearly payroll of 80mm, it definitely brings into question PA's priorities. Whether or not he's got them balanced enough to achieve a winner is a good question. We'll see in 2011 when there really shouldn't be any excuses.

Until next year when that statement becomes "We'll see in 2012 when there really shouldn't be any excuses."

[Arthur_Bryant]

My issue in the past has been: He seems to view the Birds as HIS little toy, rather than as a public trust. And therefore, he has let his own pride and ego affect baseball decisions, to the point where his seemingly spiteful personality comes before what's right for the team.

A pro sports team isn't a public trust, though. It's a business.

Or, at least, when business and public interest collide, business usually wins.

There is no question that the Orioles' owners make money. There should be no question that they have the right and the expectation of making money. At some point, profit motives collide with public interest, with ego and pride lurking in the equation somewhere. But it's futile to argue whether the partners are making too much money until we know how much they actually make, and that'll never be public.

As to the ego, that's not uncommon among spectacularly successful men. At least it doesn't seem to have adversely affected the fotunes of the team since MacPhail arrived on the scene.

[BaltimoreTerp]

But it's futile to argue whether the partners are making too much money until we know how much they actually make, and that'll never be public.

This is the key. The only professional sports franchise, to my knowledge, that is required to have open financial information is the Green Bay Packers. And that is because they actually are a publicly-owned company.

You won't see anything else unless Congress threatens the leagues with complete elimination of any anti-trust protection and the breaking up of the organizations.

[MJA3488]

I havent read through all that much of this thread, but since PA is being discussed, I just thought Id share what I know about his current role with the team-

Since MacPhail got here, PA has literally handed him the keys to the car. Over the last year, PA has almost removed himself completely. He IS NOT involved in the day to day operations. I dont know for sure and am speculating, but Id be shocked if he even knew about any of the most recent offseason moves before they officially went down. And if he did know it merely a call to alert him of the moves. PA is so preoccupied with the Exxon case currently, and because of that, and the fact that he has placed all his trust in MacPhail, he has not been involved whatsoever in the day to day operations of the team.

[Oriolidae85]

Until Andy MacPhail signs a free agent for $12M+ I will contunue to have some doubts. I like MacPhail and think he has done a fine job up to this point, but I really do feel that we will be complaining about the same thing this time next year, but that is just my opinion. The Orioles should be able to do as much as say the Seattle Mariners IMO.

If the Orioles were in the West, I would expect much more out of them this off season. But in the East, they have less room for error. And Seattle's had a better history the last 12 years, which the Orioles have now benefited from

We would get asked where the warehouse was...when we were sitting in the warehouse selling the tickets.

We would have down to standing room only....people would ask if they have seats...or if they had to stand in a certain spot the whole game.

We would have scattered single tickets left and we would be asked if they were next to each other.

You never answered my questions SG :angryfire::rofl:

[RShack]

We would get asked where the warehouse was...when we were sitting in the warehouse selling the tickets.

Do they use all the space in the warehouse, or is some of it just sitting there empty? Or do they rent space out to others?

If they use it all, how? I never really thought about it, but off the top of my head, I can't imagine what they'd use it all for...

Where in there is the GM's office? Is it a big mega-suite, or just an inner office with an outer office and little conference room, or what?