What has Jordan really accomplished?

[mikezpen]

Outside of probably Wieters, where are the hitters? There's nothing up here and less than nothing in the minors (maybe Reimold-maybe not).You see a few people show mild promise in A ball and then vanish afterward.

Pitching's better, but it's not overwhelming, either.Look at the fade once they hit the higher minors.

What do we really have at Bowie that's ready-nothing at all. At Norfolk?-Arrieta, borderline. That's it.

We all considered Jordan a draft guru a couple of years ago. Is he?

[NewMarketSean]

Much has been said of the O's targeting athletes over guys who are specialized players.

I think the time has come where we emphasize OBP and power. We've done it a certain way for years and it hasn't worked.

Whether it's Jordan or someone else, something needs to change in the way they draft players -- as well as how they coach and develop them in the minors. Jordan can pick the player, but then it's up to the coaches in the minors to bring them along, and that isn't happening like it should.

[Slappy]

I don't think the O's have been much less or more successful than other teams that have drafted around them. We have both Matusz, Wieters in the majors, more or less producing. Berken has been a good pen arm, Hernandez a "meh" starter. Tillman and Arrieta are both proving they deserve a shot in the bigs. Reimold was solid last year, slumping this year. What more do you want really?

Also, you forgot to mention Josh Bell. He needs to get his plate discipline back but he's still hitting for power.

I have been disappointed in some of his picks. Rowell, Snyder, and possibly Hobgood look like busts. But I think something like 65% of all first round picks never see the majors. So it's not like everyone else is drafting their whole team either.

[QSII]

Outside of probably Wieters

Paid for Veritek. Got Zaun.:laughlol:

[Singleton]

Outside of probably Wieters, where are the hitters? There's nothing up here and less than nothing in the minors (maybe Reimold-maybe not).You see a few people show mild promise in A ball and then vanish afterward.

Pitching's better, but it's not overwhelming, either.Look at the fade once they hit the higher minors.

What do we really have at Bowie that's ready-nothing at all. At Norfolk?-Arrieta, borderline. That's it.

We all considered Jordan a draft guru a couple of years ago. Is he?

I think this is a good post. I think you could make a very strong argument that we have the worst hitting prospects in all of baseball and for a team that drafts at the top of each round, that's not ok.

He's done much better with pitching. Arrieta, Britton, Hernandez, Berken, Bergeson -- we don't know what will become of them but all look like they have a good shot at a MLB career and possibly a good one which is impressive given none were drafted in the first 2 rounds.

Unfortunately -- we have to have hitters too so something must change.

[Stotle]

Outside of probably Wieters, where are the hitters? There's nothing up here and less than nothing in the minors (maybe Reimold-maybe not).You see a few people show mild promise in A ball and then vanish afterward.

Pitching's better, but it's not overwhelming, either.Look at the fade once they hit the higher minors.

What do we really have at Bowie that's ready-nothing at all. At Norfolk?-Arrieta, borderline. That's it.

We all considered Jordan a draft guru a couple of years ago. Is he?

People overvalued Jordan, but he's very solid. His big ticket items look pretty good, and it seems like the single-digit rounds aren't filled with many true "busts". I think RZNJ summed it up pretty well. This opening post reads like someone who has out-of-whack expectations for what the draft can accomplish (same thinking that it's possible to just "find" a 1st or 2nd round talent in the late rounds because you will pay more).

[atom_25]

I have been disappointed in some of his picks. Rowell, Snyder, and possibly Hobgood look like busts. But I think something like 65% of all first round picks never see the majors. So it's not like everyone else is drafting their whole team either.

How is Hobgood a bust?:scratchchinhmm:

[Singleton]

People overvalued Jordan, but he's very solid. His big ticket items look pretty good, and it seems like the single-digit rounds aren't filled with many true "busts". I think RZNJ summed it up pretty well. This opening post reads like someone who has out-of-whack expectations for what the draft can accomplish (same thinking that it's possible to just "find" a 1st or 2nd round talent in the late rounds because you will pay more).

How would you rank our system as a whole? Isn't it a pretty big knock on Jordan that we have so few hitters who are much of a prospect?

Unless you think we have a bunch of exciting hitters that I'm missing or that our system is in the upper half, it seems fair to criticize and expect better.

[aggie]

I think Joe has done a great job. Give Hobgood some time. He found Berry in the 9th round and signed him for less than half million. Coffey was a top 40 pick without the injury and got him under a million. You can't bash Matt Hobgood after 8 starts this year. Young man throws hard and works hard and is a work in progress. Please give him till the middle of next season at least. You can't rate this class until 2012. Plus you don;t hear about his picks getting on trouble:confused:

[Stotle]

How would you rank our system as a whole? Isn't it a pretty big knock on Jordan that we have so few hitters who are much of a prospect?

Unless you think we have a bunch of exciting hitters that I'm missing or that our system is in the upper half, it seems fair to criticize and expect better.

Mid-level system that is heavy on pitching. BAL has recently focused a disproportionate amount of their high picks on pitching. It makes sense that the pitching is stronger and deeper than the hitting. I don't see how that would indicate that Jordan is a poor evaluator/drafter. Not to mention it is sort of difficult to say anything definitive about a scouting director after just five drafts (when a number of the higher-round positional picks were HSers). I think we have a good amount of evidence that he is solid and few examples of selections that can at this time be called "poor".

Not saying BAL fans should build a shrine, but the draft hasn't been the problem in BAL for several years now.

[Stotle]

I think Joe has done a great job. Give Hobgood some time. He found Berry in the 9th round and signed him for less than half million. Coffey was a top 40 pick without the injury and got him under a million. You can't bash Matt Hobgood after 8 starts this year. Young man throws hard and works hard and is a work in progress. Please give him till the middle of next season at least. You can't rate this class until 2012. Plus you don;t hear about his picks getting on trouble:confused:

This would be the "over-valuing" of Jordan to which I was referring. He didn't "find" these guys so much as he decided that they were worth the gamble at their respective slots/prices. And Coffey was most certainly NOT a top 40 talent. I'm hoping that misconception eventually dies, because it's not a fair label/expectation to put on the kid.

[Singleton]

I think Joe has done a great job. Give Hobgood some time. He found Berry in the 9th round and signed him for less than half million. Coffey was a top 40 pick without the injury and got him under a million. You can't bash Matt Hobgood after 8 starts this year. Young man throws hard and works hard and is a work in progress. Please give him till the middle of next season at least. You can't rate this class until 2012. Plus you don;t hear about his picks getting on trouble:confused:

I don't think most of us are referring to last year's class in particular. JJ has been here a good while and we don't have much up and down the system.

Personally, I don't care how many top 40 picks we sign in the later rounds on the cheap. I want MLB talent.

[Singleton]

Mid-level system that is heavy on pitching. BAL has recently focused a disproportionate amount of their high picks on pitching. It makes sense that the pitching is stronger and deeper than the hitting. I don't see how that would indicate that Jordan is a poor evaluator/drafter. Not to mention it is sort of difficult to say anything definitive about a scouting director after just five drafts (when a number of the higher-round positional picks were HSers). I think we have a good amount of evidence that he is solid and few examples of selections that can at this time be called "poor".

Not saying BAL fans should build a shrine, but the draft hasn't been the problem in BAL for several years now.

Ok. Let me ask it another way. Is there a major league team that has a worse collection of hitting prospects in their minor league system than ours?

I have no problem with the emphasis on pitching but I don't think you can build a rotation and the complete expense of your offense.

If you have a top 5 draft pick in every round in every year you can't have the dearth of hitting talent that we have. It's just not ok.

[soxhotcorner14]

Outside of probably Wieters, where are the hitters? There's nothing up here and less than nothing in the minors (maybe Reimold-maybe not).You see a few people show mild promise in A ball and then vanish afterward.

Pitching's better, but it's not overwhelming, either.Look at the fade once they hit the higher minors.

What do we really have at Bowie that's ready-nothing at all. At Norfolk?-Arrieta, borderline. That's it.

We all considered Jordan a draft guru a couple of years ago. Is he?

This is pretty much what I'm talking about in my thread. But not really holding Jordan to the fire. It's really holding the organization to the fire for the past 20+ years.

Outside of Mussina, Brian Roberts.. what have they turned out?

[wickedwitch]

I'm not sure how much of it is that Jordan's better with picking pitchers or that the Orioles are better at developing pitchers.