If it's true that Showalter wasn't AM's pick...

[carolinaoriole]

For which part?

The fact that there were reports that AM preferred Wedge and now we have Showalter.

The fact that Showalter wants to have greater say and AM prefers to keep things tightly under his own control (per Tony's expose).

Just look at what's going on and read between the lines.

MSK

Reading between the lines is dangerous when one is looking for the truth.

It is easy to find what one wants to find.

[flashjordnk]

For which part?

The fact that there were reports that AM preferred Wedge and now we have Showalter.

The fact that Showalter wants to have greater say and AM prefers to keep things tightly under his own control (per Tony's expose).

Just look at what's going on and read between the lines.

MSK

This totally ignores the option of a 1 vs. 1a preference. It just seems like people want it to fix this cycle. This guy got hired and it never seemed like the Wedge for Manager option got any traction at all.

Maybe AM wanted this guy but of his little inner circle of advisors none of them wanted him either. Maybe AM revised his choice. Or made it clear he liked Wedge for reasons X, Y and Z but could see Buck being a good choice for reasons A, B and C.

I think this is a case of seeing something between the lines because people want to, not because it's necessarily there. Yeah it's possible...but to me it seems like a bit of a stretch. Asking someone to simply make a gigantic assumption in an argument does not seem to me to be a good way to get your point across.

[flashjordnk]

Until Tony's expose, all the things about the mismanagement of the organization were only "assumptions."

You folks will do anything to believe that the FO is a perfect machine eh?

MSK

Not saying it's a perfect machine. But also not saying it's the anti-perfect and has to be wrong.

There is a lot between the lines here. And obviously we both can see it however we want. But with all the negativity flying around on these boards it's easy to say, "read between the lines" and come to the worst possible outcome.

I'm just saying caution some of the things you're saying. There is plenty of middleground here.

[DrungoHazewood]

Until Tony's expose, all the things about the mismanagement of the organization were only "assumptions."

You folks will do anything to believe that the FO is a perfect machine eh?

MSK

It's interesting how you and a few other posters now basically equate "some good, some bad" with being a pathetic, little naïve apologist.

[Sports Guy]

But the article rightly points out that it's very likely the O's did this.

And I'm not inclined to think that's happened either. Where did you get any inclination that it has happened other than Buck saying he wanted it.

Machado probably said he wanted 12 mill. Doesn't mean it has any chance of actually happening. Indirect sources and quotes out of context can lead you to believe something that isn't true. In this case I don't think Buck is getting to be the all being power in the O's. But I'm sure he was promised some kind of influence.

Just seems that you're quick to point out a flaw that the article casts immediate doubts on, and one that has an inside source. If he was given that kind of control wouldn't the source be outing that kind of information too?

HUh? Not sure what this has to do with what i am saying...Just not understanding what you are asking.

[LookitsPuck]

LOL..No I got it...Just thought it was really really lame. That's why I was laughing.

You bring it up and then say, its wrong and I won't do it.

Why anyone would openly admit to illegal practices on an open forum, especially one as tight as OH is beyond me.

[scOtt]

HUh? Not sure what this has to do with what i am saying...Just not understanding what you are asking.

I think he's saying (and I get the impression too) you are assuming Buck IS GM/Manager. I think it's much more likely he will have influence on personnel and other thing, but not the final word.

[scOtt]

Why anyone would openly admit to illegal practices on an open forum, especially one as tight as OH is beyond me.

Because the Gambling Police aren't constantly monitoring the OH to make a bust.

[NewMarketSean]

When...and how often again?

1996 - vetoed trades that would have kept the O's out of the playoffs.

1999 - signed Albert Belle without Frank Wren's involvement.

There are some others that I am drawing blanks on.

[Sports Guy]

I think he's saying (and I get the impression too) you are assuming Buck IS GM/Manager. I think it's much more likely he will have influence on personnel and other thing, but not the final word.

I am not assuming that...in fact, I hope that's not the case.

[scOtt]

1996 - vetoed trades that would have kept the O's out of the playoffs.

1999 - signed Albert Belle without Frank Wren's involvement.

There are some others that I am drawing blanks on.

The college pitcher (Townsend?) over the HS SS.

[LookitsPuck]

Because the Gambling Police aren't constantly monitoring the OH to make a bust.

No, but this forum is uptight and conservative when it comes to their rules, and it wouldn't shock me one bit if someone on this forum had an agenda and banned someone because of it.

[scOtt]

I am not assuming that...in fact, I hope that's not the case.

Good, me either. One of the articles said Buck wanted to be consulted on things, including the deadline, but didn't even want the final word.

[scOtt]

No, but this forum is uptight and conservative when it comes to their rules, and it wouldn't shock me one bit if someone on this forum had an agenda and banned someone because of it.

Oh, my bad then. I doubt that, but your position makes more sense now.

[TonySoprano]

1996 - vetoed trades that would have kept the O's out of the playoffs.

Disagree, at least in regard to the Wells-Burnitz trade. In August-September, Wells pitched to an ERA of 5.87 with a 4-4 record in 13 starts. We won the wild card by three games, so unless one wants to argue we didn't have another pitcher who could get us two wins out of the thirteen starts we gave Wells....

The footnote is Wells left for the Yankees in the offseason. Burnitz was cheap and under control for two or three more years.