Showalter gives Fox an earful

[SammyBirdland]

I have never heard anything about swinging at a 3-0 pitch when you are up by 10 as being disrespectful to the other team.

I can't recall an at-bat I've heard where a comment wasn't made by the announcer on the 3-0 pitch saying something like "let's see if he has the green light here". Players will take the 3-0 pitch in probably 90% of at-bats (or more).

[Phantom]

The Babe Ruth of Spring Training does what he wants...in spring training.

Any chance Buck was protecting him from potential retribution?

[tntoriole]

It's bad baseball, yes, and I can easily see how Buck would be upset by it.

But I can also see why Fox would swing away. Dude is battling for his career. He's already been dumped by two teams and is never going to have the kind of security others do. He needs to produce no matter what the situation, and with two guys in scoring position, that's a prime opportunity.

And to heck with Leyland. Dean of managers my butt. He's a quitter and a surly jerk. I could care less that he was upset.

If I am Fox, I am swinging away unless there was a take sign. And if I had hit the ball out of the ballpark, I would have mooned Leyland. Etiquette, shmettiquette.... And, the reaction to this by both managers was over the top....it is a spring training game. It will be interesting to see if the press asks Showalter about this outburst or just lets it pass.

[ledzepp8]

I guess I'm a little confused at the over reaction by both managers. It's ST, these games for the most part don't mean anything. The Tigers minor league pitcher is auditioning just as much as Jake Fox is, what good does it do him if you expect the opposing team to coddle him when he starts the batter off

3-0?

Do you think they call these "unwritten rules" because no one has ever heard anything about them until someone *****es and complains?

I don't think I've ever heard anything about not swinging on 3-0, against a minor league pitcher, while up 13-3, in the 8th inning of a ST game. Seems a little contrived to me.

[Riggodrill44]

I found this on the net about swinging at 3-0 picthes.

A rule of the Code (this is from the book's publicity release): “When an opponent has been thoroughly run into the ground, players are not supposed to swing at 3-0 pitches. When Torii Hunter once hit a 3-0 fastball when his Twins led the Red Sox 8-1 late in the game, the deed was considered so foul that Hunter's own manager forced him to apologize in person to Red Sox manager Terry Francona.”

[Can_of_corn]

Suprised this has not been mentioned:

The Orioles manager was still fuming about it after the game as it apparently wasn't the first time this spring where Fox ignored a clear take situation.

Fox is not a first time offender this spring, I can see where that would increase Buck's ire.

[SammyBirdland]

Suprised this has not been mentioned:

Fox is not a first time offender this spring, I can see where that would increase Buck's ire.

This is may be why he doesn't like Fox at catcher. Catcher probably has to think more than any other position on the field, and it seems like Fox might not be a thinker (at least as far as Buck is concerned).

[Hooded Viper]

Suprised this has not been mentioned:

Fox is not a first time offender this spring, I can see where that would increase Buck's ire.

This. Clearly the guy has been ignoring signs and that is what Buck was pissed at. Who cares about Leyland but habitually ignoring signs is never going to ingratiate you with the Manager. Follow the signs young man, follow the signs!

[Frobby]

This. Clearly the guy has been ignoring signs and that is what Buck was pissed at. Who cares about Leyland but habitually ignoring signs is never going to ingratiate you with the Manager. Follow the signs young man, follow the signs!

The quote doesn't say Fox ignored a sign, it said it wasn't the first time he ignored "a clear take situation." I think this is more about not showing up the other team, rather than disobeying orders (or not checking to see if you have orders).

Baseball's a funny game, with its unwritten rules. But yes, I think most major leaguers would know not to swing at a 3-0 pitch thrown by a minor league pitcher in the 8th inning of a game where you have a ten-run lead.

I doubt this will be any big deal. Showalter said what he had to say to Fox, and now they'll move on. As usual, we're obsessing about something that was over and done with in three minutes of a spring training game.

[webbrick2010]

I thought the issue was that Fox intentionally extended the AB by swinging at a CLEAR ball four (as in, bounced or way up or out or something like that), so he didn't have to walk.

Leyland isn't getting angry over someone swinging on 3-0, people. Has to be something like I stated above.

I mean, I did that in a lawyers' softball league game and felt "dirty" doing it.

Why would swinging at ball 4 and helping out a young pitcher in a meaningless game be the wrong (unsportsmanlike) thing to do. I am totally confused by this situation and I have been watching baseball for 50 years.

It has to be that he swung on a take sign, but why would a take sign be in place. Perhaps Leyland and BS wanted Fox to take 3 strikes, but it's not clear to me that the minor league pitcher could throw anything over the plate.

In social softball league I have often swung at balls to help out a pitcher that can't throw stikes. Taking walks in a game that is a blow out is the a**hole thing to do.

I'm at a loss. If BS cuts Fox our two best ST hitters Reimold and Fox will be gone.

[Hooded Viper]

The quote doesn't say Fox ignored a sign, it said it wasn't the first time he ignored "a clear take situation." I think this is more about not showing up the other team, rather than disobeying orders (or not checking to see if you have orders).

Baseball's a funny game, with its unwritten rules. But yes, I think most major leaguers would know not to swing at a 3-0 pitch thrown by a minor league pitcher in the 8th inning of a game where you have a ten-run lead.

I doubt this will be any big deal. Showalter said what he had to say to Fox, and now they'll move on. As usual, we're obsessing about something that was over and done with in three minutes of a spring training game.

Good catch and I definitely misinterpreted the quote. I agree this isn't a big deal.

[RVAbird]

I wonder how much of Buck's tirade was a show to protect Fox and the other players from retribution - like, maybe Leyland would see that Buck was clearly pissed about that and might let it go?

This is what I was going to say. I don't know the details, but I could see Buck pulling a visual and audible reaction to sort of say to Leyland, "yes, that was wrong, and I'm handling it."

[TJ Wrangler]

Yeah, I think there's more to it. He might have a hard time getting through to Fox or perhaps this is a growing trend.

My guess is Buck was more ticked that Fox ignored the take sign or something like that and that it was a reoccurance.

This.

Fox apparently ignored a take sign (apparently not the first time) and Showalter got pissed. I'd say that's fair.

EDIT:

The Orioles manager was still fuming about it after the game as it apparently wasn't the first time this spring where Fox ignored a clear take situation.[/Quote]

The article said Fox ignored a clear take situation, not necessarily a take sign. Given Buck's reaction, I'd have to assume there's a little more to it.

[Bradysburns]

My guess is this is the ST equivalent of trying to bunt to break up a perfect game...

In ST the objectives are different, so I could see being up 13-3 with a minor leaguer on the mound, that you would take in that situation.

But the Tigers did score 6 more runs.

If this was a regular season game, I'm sure Buck would have no problem having him swing away.

My guess is Buck was more ticked that Fox ignored the take sign or something like that and that it was a reoccurance.

That's the only justification for Buck's reaction, IMO. Otherwise, I would want my guys trying very hard to bury the HELL out of the opposition, every at-bat, every swing, every pitch, until the final out is recorded... every game. Spring training or not.

[Tony-OH]

When you are fighting for a position on a major league roster, there are no "clear take situations" unless the manager gives you the take sign.

I appreciate the fact that Buck wants to play the game right, I really do, and unless I'm missing some behind the scenes stuff, I don't see how you can ask a guy who's batlling for a position on a major league team to take any pitches he thinks he can hit.

During the season I got it, but this is spring training. We're throwing out Double-A and sinle-A players late in games. They don't matter. So I guess I don't get the horribleness of Fox's action here.

Either way, I don't think this is that big a deal. Buck can deal with it however he likes and as long as it's not held against him, I don't see it as a potential problem.