Trading Adam Jones

[Stotle]

You give the deal to Jones because he's your Torii Hunter, the guy that is the core of the team.

Wieters is not that guy, Markakis is not that guy.

You can't just assume you'll find that guy in the trades you make, especially for the little talent we have to offer.

I think this is all moot though because Showalter loves Jones and the team has him as one of their faces so I doubt he's going anywhere.

Really? You think Jones is a piece to build around and Wieters is not? You think Jones is a more important piece than Wieters?

[JTrea81]

So why would you want to pay him to be Torrii Hunter. Assuming he could even match Hunter's offense?

Hunter is a leader on and off the field. Jonesy is turning into him more and more each year IMO.

He's improved offensively each season and he's on pace to set career highs in AVG, 2Bs and RBI and he's only 25.

[El Gordo]

I think you can extend Jones for 5/60 with a mutal option for 15 million for a 6/75 possible contract.

Jonesy still likes it in Baltimore right now.

This should be enough ti damn him right there. No competitive player should like it in Baltimore right now.

[JTrea81]

Really? You think Jones is a piece to build around and Wieters is not? You think Jones is a more important piece than Wieters?

I'm saying Wieters isn't a vocal leader in that clubhouse. He and Jones are part of the core, but Jones drives that team IMO.

They are both parts to build around. But you can't just build around Wieters.

The Yankees had Jeter, Williams, Posada

The Red Sox have Youkilis, Pedroia, Ortiz and Ellsbury

You need a solid core of offense that will be there for several seasons. Jones is still young enough to be part of a winning 2014 and beyond team, as is Wieters.

[Stotle]

I'm saying Wieters isn't a vocal leader in that clubhouse. He and Jones are part of the core, but Jones drives that team IMO.

They are both parts to build around. But you can't just build around Wieters.

The Yankees had Jeter, Williams, Posada

The Red Sox have Youkilis, Pedroia, Ortiz and Ellsbury

You need a solid core of offense that will be there for several seasons. Jones is still young enough to be part of a winning 2014 and beyond team, as is Wieters.

I think if you extend Jones you end up with what BAL has in Markakis. Essentially a deal that is "worth it" but not one where they are saving money. And that is what they need to build around. Contracts where they are coming out ahead. That's the only way they will have enough flexibility to extend the pieces they need and bring in the FA gap fillers.

[CA-ORIOLE]

Hunter is a leader on and off the field. Jonesy is turning into him more and more each year IMO.

He's improved offensively each season and he's on pace to set career highs in AVG, 2Bs and RBI and he's only 25.

I don't buy the leadership stuff at all. Lots of guys can fill in the void to lead. Most/all of the stats you cited aren't important ones. I'll give you that he's progressed some and he may well develop into a prolific power hitter. I don't know. There's always risk there. Right now I have more concerns about his discipline / OBP skills and his defense and believe he's worth more in trade than investing more to see if he becomes Torri Hunter.

[El Gordo]

Hunter's defense was flashy, but he like Jones was an average defender.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=731&position=OF

From 1999-2005 Hunter averaged a 6 UZR. Jones hasn't been nor will he ever come near that with the glove. Jones is currently a -10.1 UZR with a career UZR/150 of -4.3. No comparison.:rolleyestf:

[El Gordo]

I'm saying Wieters isn't a vocal leader in that clubhouse. He and Jones are part of the core, but Jones drives that team IMO.

They are both parts to build around. But you can't just build around Wieters.

The Yankees had Jeter, Williams, Posada

The Red Sox have Youkilis, Pedroia, Ortiz and Ellsbury

You need a solid core of offense that will be there for several seasons. Jones is still young enough to be part of a winning 2014 and beyond team, as is Wieters.

How do you know this? Living in Maine how can you spend that much time in the O's clubhouse. Having the loudest mouth in the clubhouse (one that can be heard all the way to Maine, apparently)Doesn't necessarily make him a vocal leader.

[Sports Guy]

I don't think Trea is neccassarily wrong about Jones.

There are a lot of reasons to like Adam and there are a lot of reasons to sign him long term.

The problem is, how much money are you willing to pay him and how much better do you think he is going to get from this point forward?

As i said the other day, I feel it is pretty safe to say that Jones' offense will be above average in CF...Most of the time, he will probably be in the 780-820 OPS range, which will be slugging% heavy and the OBP will be driven by his BA.

So, if you feel he is a 2-3 WAR player now, which is probably what he is, how much better do you think he will get...and really, for him to get better, it will likely have to come on the defensive side of things.

For him to become a 4+ WAR player, he will have to become a much better defensive player. Does he have the tools to do that? Yes, he probably does. Does he have the coachability, desire and effort to get better? That is what I am not sure about.

All I know is, right now, he isn't that player and the longer you wait to extend him, the more expensive it will be because you will be eating up more and more free agency years.

I just don't see the Jones extension being one that will be favorable to the Orioles and I really feel that there will be some team(s) that will offer a deal that will be too good to turn down.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I'm saying Wieters isn't a vocal leader in that clubhouse. He and Jones are part of the core, but Jones drives that team IMO.

They are both parts to build around. But you can't just build around Wieters.

The Yankees had Jeter, Williams, Posada

The Red Sox have Youkilis, Pedroia, Ortiz and Ellsbury

You need a solid core of offense that will be there for several seasons. Jones is still young enough to be part of a winning 2014 and beyond team, as is Wieters.

At some point you have to acknowledge the counterpoint, whether you agree with it or not. That being, we can likely get more value for Jones for less money and put the team in a better overall position him by dealing him.

[JTrea81]

At some point you have to acknowledge the counterpoint, whether you agree with it or not. That being, we can likely get more value for Jones for less money and put the team in a better overall position him by dealing him.

I think the team would be hurt more than helped by dealing Jones.

First of all you aren't going to get back a ton of value for him. Teams don't view him as a superstar and he's likely worth more to the Orioles than he would be in a trade.

They will look at all the same things that have been brought up in this thread.

We aren't trading a Justin Upton type player at this point. People are overestimating the return.

Bullpen arms aren't as worth as much as Jones could be moving forward and that's likely all you'd get for him.

[CA-ORIOLE]

I think the team would be hurt more than helped by dealing Jones

Then that's it, we're essentially done as that's the real point. I disagree. If we had more in the way of financial resources I'd love to keep Jones. Considering the likely resources available and my assessment of Jones' potential upside, it's my opinion he'd net more value in trade. I also disagree with your premise he'd net nothing more than "bullpen arms".

[JTrea81]

Then that's it, we're essentially done as that's the real point. I disagree. If we had more in the way of financial resources I'd love to keep Jones. Considering the likely resources available and my assessment of Jones' potential upside, it's my opinion he'd net more value in trade. I also disagree with your premise he'd net nothing more than "bullpen arms".

How limited do you think our resources are?

Who else do you want to extend or sign with those resources, and why would they sign with Baltimore when they just traded one of their best players considered to be part of their core?

As for extensions, who do you want to lock up besides Wieters?

I don't see Jones limiting payroll as there aren't too many other players in the organization worth looking at as LT pieces. We can handle a 5/60 deal for him.

And as I said if you deal him, you won't have to worry about signing any high priced FAs because nobody wil come here at all to be part of a rebuilding squad.

[Roll Tide]

My guess is that Jones is rated highly enough by other GMs that someone would be willing to overpay for him - but I'd think that it would have to happen no later than this offseason in order to maximize his value. If you can get someone to overpay for him then I don't see how you don't trade him.

Having said that I'll be amazed if he gets traded.

I wonder if the hometown thing plays for San Diego. If they'd be willing to overpay to get him?

[CA-ORIOLE]

I wonder if the hometown thing plays for San Diego. If they'd be willing to overpay to get him?

Probably not. Hoyer isn't one I'd consider a dumb GM and he's got limited resources.