Jump to content

Machado to Frederick on June 23


waroriole

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 110
  • Created
  • Last Reply
Bell's poor plate discipline was not really true at all before he got here. His OBP in the Dodgers system was well over .350. His BB% was 11%. His BB/K ratio was 0.7, which is better than average. His plate discipline actually looked pretty good.

It's when he got into the Orioles system that everything went to complete hell. In our system, his OBP is .314 (sub-.300 this year), his BB% is 6%, and his BB/K ratio is 0.25.

That is a dramatic decline in plate discipline, and it is valid to wonder if the teachings of our system has something to do with that.

I think you're missing the point. The point is that Josh Bell (or Nolan Reimold for that matter) had nowhere near the hype nor pedigree that Machado has. If he did, he certainly wouldn't have been traded for George 'effing Sherrill. Wieters, yes, but him and Machado are really the only elite hitting prospects we have had in our system for years.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think you're missing the point. The point is that Josh Bell (or Nolan Reimold for that matter) had nowhere near the hype nor pedigree that Machado has. If he did, he certainly wouldn't have been traded for George 'effing Sherrill. Wieters, yes, but him and Machado are really the only elite hitting prospects we have had in our system for years.

What is the point then? We should have gotten an elite hitting prospect for Sherrill?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is the point then? We should have gotten an elite hitting prospect for Sherrill?

The point that was being made is that Sherill wasn't going to yield a fantastic return. We were looking to get a couple of guys and hope someone panned out. Frankly Bell/Johnson was a better return than I think was merited for Sherill and that MacPhail did a good job here. Johnson will likely never pitch in Baltimore.... at least not for an extended period. Josh Bell could be a replacement level 3B... but little else IMO. Basically, he'd be someone to use in case of emergency. He'll be in another organization in a couple years. But at least Norfolk has someone to play at 3B for the time being.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not to derail the thread, but wondering if anyone else has done this....glancing at the Key's box score from last night, I momentarily wondered why Bumbry was in RF instead of CF....ha.

Loving that Machado crushed one last night. Any word on his play in the field, if he had any chances, how he looked? Very excited about this kid!

Saw him a couple times this weekend in Frederick. Still showing average-at-best range at short, particularly to his left and in on balls (very slow coming in). Very soft hands, strong arms, good actions, but really meh range. It won't kill him out there right now, but I still worry about how some extra weight slows him down over the next few years. We'll see. I do think he'd make a great third baseman, but for the sake of the org. I'm holding out hope that he'll stick at short.

At the plate he shows a good, patient approach. Some balls were hit on the ground when he got out too heavy on his front foot, but all in all I'm pleased with where his bat is right now. I feel pretty good about him becoming a .280+ hitter in the AL.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is the point then? We should have gotten an elite hitting prospect for Sherrill?

Other way around, if Bell was truly an elite prospect there is no way the Dodgers would have traded him for George Sherrill. Would you have traded Wieters or Machado for Sherrill? No way!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not to derail the thread, but wondering if anyone else has done this....glancing at the Key's box score from last night, I momentarily wondered why Bumbry was in RF instead of CF....ha.

Loving that Machado crushed one last night. Any word on his play in the field, if he had any chances, how he looked? Very excited about this kid!

Saw him a couple times this weekend in Frederick. Still showing average-at-best range at short, particularly to his left and in on balls (very slow coming in). Very soft hands, strong arms, good actions, but really meh range. It won't kill him out there right now, but I still worry about how some extra weight slows him down over the next few years. We'll see. I do think he'd make a great third baseman, but for the sake of the org. I'm holding out hope that he'll stick at short.

At the plate he shows a good, patient approach. Some balls were hit on the ground when he got out too heavy on his front foot, but all in all I'm pleased with where his bat is right now. I feel pretty good about him becoming a .280+ hitter in the AL.

I got to see Machado play on Saturday. He looks very smooth in the field. As RVAbird said, very fluent throwing motion, soft hands, and he has the ability to fling the ball across the infield on a straight line with just a flick of the wrist. He made everything look routine on Saturday except for one ball hit to the middle of the infield to Machado's left. He probably got there a little slow and the ball went right under the glove of his outstretched arm. The impression I got from watching Machado is that he seems very much a natural shortstop. As average as his range might be, you can tell the kid is very comfortable and confident at shortstop. From the way he sets up, reads the ball off the bat, and his motions, all very natural. Even on the ball he missed to his left he did not give one of those Tejada all-out lumbering efforts. It looked like Machado was sure he was going to get the ball, it was a graceful miss. It almost looked like if Machado gave a little bit more of an effort he would have gotten the ball, not as if he was limited in his ability to get to the ball.

I would really like to hear opinions on my observations, but I think Machado actually has plenty of room to improve his range. Machado has a long, athletic build with long arms and legs. I was able to catch him on the way up to the Keys dugout right after the game (check out the avatar, I got an autographed ball :D) and this guy was every bit of 6'4"-6'5" in cleats. My impression: the kid is still getting used to his body. While smooth, at times he looked gangly, like his coordination with his athletic movements is still not there. Aside from a baseball perspective, with Machado I see a lot of room for improvement with agility and lateral quickness. Sure one day he might outgrow shortstop, but I see that as way down the line when the guy has a grown man body and is 220 pounds. With his athletic body type I do not see him being able to put on weight suddenly, it is going to be gradual over time.

On the contrary to a lot of scouting reports, I do not think he is limited in his agility or quickness. I think an offseason working with a speed and agility coach, combined with just getting more experience and better coordination, and you will really see improvement. Now I am not a baseball talent evaluator by any means, but I am experienced in speed and agility training and am able to see when there are wasted movements in athletes. I just get the feeling that Machado is going to be able to stick at short. The movements and instincts are very good, he just needs to improve his overall coordination, which should come with maturity.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The point that was being made is that Sherill wasn't going to yield a fantastic return. We were looking to get a couple of guys and hope someone panned out. Frankly Bell/Johnson was a better return than I think was merited for Sherill and that MacPhail did a good job here. Johnson will likely never pitch in Baltimore.... at least not for an extended period. Josh Bell could be a replacement level 3B... but little else IMO. Basically, he'd be someone to use in case of emergency. He'll be in another organization in a couple years. But at least Norfolk has someone to play at 3B for the time being.

It sounds like you're saying that this was regarded as the most likely outcome at the time of the trade, with the Orioles just hoping to get lucky with Bell. I certainly didn't feel that way at the time, and I don't think most of this board did either. My recollection is that he was viewed as a guy likely to see time in the majors as a starter. The guy was ranked #37 in all of MLB by Baseball America going into the 2010 season. (link). No one was touting him as a Wieters/Machado-level guy, but he was supposed to be a major-league asset.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It sounds like you're saying that this was regarded as the most likely outcome at the time of the trade' date=' with the Orioles just hoping to get lucky with Bell. I certainly didn't feel that way at the time, and I don't think most of this board did either. My recollection is that he was viewed as a guy likely to see time in the majors as a starter. The guy was ranked #37 in all of MLB by Baseball America going into the 2010 season. (link). No one was touting him as a Wieters/Machado-level guy, but he was supposed to be a major-league asset.

Bell was never regarded as much of a prospect until he entered the Orioles system. He was a guy that was having a good 2009 when he was traded and we were hoping would continue that. He continued to have an even better 2009 in Bowie than he was having with LA's AA team. That led to his ranking in 2010 when he was already an Oriole. Before 2009, he was seen as a guy who could be serviceable at best in a MLB org. His 2009 inflated his worth... and I think the Dodgers knew what they were doing in unloading Bell to us. Since Sherill didn't mean that much to us anymore really either though, we didn't exactly lose either.

He had a good, not great 2010 in Norfolk. Got promoted. Didn't do very well. Now, he's not doing particularly well in AAA anymore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I got to see Machado play on Saturday. He looks very smooth in the field. As RVAbird said, very fluent throwing motion, soft hands, and he has the ability to fling the ball across the infield on a straight line with just a flick of the wrist. He made everything look routine on Saturday except for one ball hit to the middle of the infield to Machado's left. He probably got there a little slow and the ball went right under the glove of his outstretched arm. The impression I got from watching Machado is that he seems very much a natural shortstop. As average as his range might be, you can tell the kid is very comfortable and confident at shortstop. From the way he sets up, reads the ball off the bat, and his motions, all very natural. Even on the ball he missed to his left he did not give one of those Tejada all-out lumbering efforts. It looked like Machado was sure he was going to get the ball, it was a graceful miss. It almost looked like if Machado gave a little bit more of an effort he would have gotten the ball, not as if he was limited in his ability to get to the ball.

I would really like to hear opinions on my observations, but I think Machado actually has plenty of room to improve his range. Machado has a long, athletic build with long arms and legs. I was able to catch him on the way up to the Keys dugout right after the game (check out the avatar, I got an autographed ball :D) and this guy was every bit of 6'4"-6'5" in cleats. My impression: the kid is still getting used to his body. While smooth, at times he looked gangly, like his coordination with his athletic movements is still not there. Aside from a baseball perspective, with Machado I see a lot of room for improvement with agility and lateral quickness. Sure one day he might outgrow shortstop, but I see that as way down the line when the guy has a grown man body and is 220 pounds. With his athletic body type I do not see him being able to put on weight suddenly, it is going to be gradual over time.

On the contrary to a lot of scouting reports, I do not think he is limited in his agility or quickness. I think an offseason working with a speed and agility coach, combined with just getting more experience and better coordination, and you will really see improvement. Now I am not a baseball talent evaluator by any means, but I am experienced in speed and agility training and am able to see when there are wasted movements in athletes. I just get the feeling that Machado is going to be able to stick at short. The movements and instincts are very good, he just needs to improve his overall coordination, which should come with maturity.

Good to get another eyeball opinion on some things I saw.

In my opinion, a shortstop with average range gets to that ball to Machado's left easily. You could say he didn't get 100% effort to get over there, but that's really damning with faint praise, isn't it? Regardless, I've seen plays like that on several occasions with Machado. He just isn't very quick. That was just one play, but its quite consistent with what I've seen from Machado in the past. He just doesn't get to a lot of balls far to his left and also does not charge slow rollers well.

As far as room for improvement in range, I don't see it at all. What I see is a tall, projectable frame that should tack on weight in the legs, butt, and hips. It's what will ultimately allow him to hit for solid pop in the big leagues, but it it should slow down a big kid who is already slow laterally. He can do exercises to sharpen his lateral quickness, but I don't see much room for improvement rangewise and I see a good possibility for regression. Machado might not put on 30 LBs over the next three years, but when you look at the areas where he'll fill out, I think you have to assume that he will lose some quickness.

Either way, I don't think this will necessarily prohibit him from sticking at short. I'll stick to what I said in the spring. I think that Baltimore keeps him at short and he develops into a guy with below average range who makes all the plays on balls he gets to and looks good in the field.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good to get another eyeball opinion on some things I saw.

In my opinion, a shortstop with average range gets to that ball to Machado's left easily. You could say he didn't get 100% effort to get over there, but that's really damning with faint praise, isn't it? Regardless, I've seen plays like that on several occasions with Machado. He just isn't very quick. That was just one play, but its quite consistent with what I've seen from Machado in the past. He just doesn't get to a lot of balls far to his left and also does not charge slow rollers well.

As far as room for improvement in range, I don't see it at all. What I see is a tall, projectable frame that should tack on weight in the legs, butt, and hips. It's what will ultimately allow him to hit for solid pop in the big leagues, but it it should slow down a big kid who is already slow laterally. He can do exercises to sharpen his lateral quickness, but I don't see much room for improvement rangewise and I see a good possibility for regression. Machado might not put on 30 LBs over the next three years, but when you look at the areas where he'll fill out, I think you have to assume that he will lose some quickness.

Either way, I don't think this will necessarily prohibit him from sticking at short. I'll stick to what I said in the spring. I think that Baltimore keeps him at short and he develops into a guy with below average range who makes all the plays on balls he gets to and looks good in the field.

I think what you are getting at is the same stuff Nick saw last year, and I've seen glimpses of in video. He's got the arm to make up for the lack of range, but he's going to have to rely on perfect positioning to overcome it at the higher levels. He's not going to be Ozzie and get to everything between the bags but if you have a 3B with decent range you can cheat him towards 2B and mitigate the damage. He's got good hands, but you're right, it's a matter of how much you value those groundballs he can't get to.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good to get another eyeball opinion on some things I saw.

In my opinion, a shortstop with average range gets to that ball to Machado's left easily. You could say he didn't get 100% effort to get over there, but that's really damning with faint praise, isn't it? Regardless, I've seen plays like that on several occasions with Machado. He just isn't very quick. That was just one play, but its quite consistent with what I've seen from Machado in the past. He just doesn't get to a lot of balls far to his left and also does not charge slow rollers well.

As far as room for improvement in range, I don't see it at all. What I see is a tall, projectable frame that should tack on weight in the legs, butt, and hips. It's what will ultimately allow him to hit for solid pop in the big leagues, but it it should slow down a big kid who is already slow laterally. He can do exercises to sharpen his lateral quickness, but I don't see much room for improvement rangewise and I see a good possibility for regression. Machado might not put on 30 LBs over the next three years, but when you look at the areas where he'll fill out, I think you have to assume that he will lose some quickness.

Either way, I don't think this will necessarily prohibit him from sticking at short. I'll stick to what I said in the spring. I think that Baltimore keeps him at short and he develops into a guy with below average range who makes all the plays on balls he gets to and looks good in the field.

Somehow, I just feel like I read a scout's summary of Cal Ripken playing shortstop! ;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good to get another eyeball opinion on some things I saw.

In my opinion, a shortstop with average range gets to that ball to Machado's left easily. You could say he didn't get 100% effort to get over there, but that's really damning with faint praise, isn't it? Regardless, I've seen plays like that on several occasions with Machado. He just isn't very quick. That was just one play, but its quite consistent with what I've seen from Machado in the past. He just doesn't get to a lot of balls far to his left and also does not charge slow rollers well.

As far as room for improvement in range, I don't see it at all. What I see is a tall, projectable frame that should tack on weight in the legs, butt, and hips. It's what will ultimately allow him to hit for solid pop in the big leagues, but it it should slow down a big kid who is already slow laterally. He can do exercises to sharpen his lateral quickness, but I don't see much room for improvement rangewise and I see a good possibility for regression. Machado might not put on 30 LBs over the next three years, but when you look at the areas where he'll fill out, I think you have to assume that he will lose some quickness.

Either way, I don't think this will necessarily prohibit him from sticking at short. I'll stick to what I said in the spring. I think that Baltimore keeps him at short and he develops into a guy with below average range who makes all the plays on balls he gets to and looks good in the field.

Thanks for the commentary on my observations. I certainly see your point, but what do you think of my assessment on his coordination? As someone who is a big believer in plyometrics and quickness and agility work, if you take a kid who is slow laterally and get him work on the agility ladder and work in cone drills every day, his agility is going to get better. His foot coordination is going to get better. I've seen it happen with many athletes. Machado has an athletic build, and is naturally smooth in his baseball movements, I think he would really pick up quickly to this type of work. If I had to bet, I doubt Machado has done consistent work of this type before. You can tell just from watching him run the bases that he has not had any form training. To me, I just do not think Machado has grown into his body. Of course, I have not seen him play as much as you have, but from an athletic standpoint, I see an athlete who still looks kind of gangly and is still uncoordinated to an extent. I would love see his growth history. I remember when he was coming out of the draft there were reports of him being in the 6'1" range. If these are true (because he is certainly a lot taller than 6'1" now), and he hit a growth spurt his senior year of high school or so, then I can certainly see the coordination coming into play in regards to his range and lateral quickness.

Lets go back to that example of the missed ball hit toward the middle of the infield on Saturday. That was a particularly interesting example because that was a ball I thought he could have dove for and easily got. Looking back on that play Machado read the ball correctly, and while he got over to the spot slowly, he looked graceful in getting there. Honestly I thought he was going to scoop the ball then make a highlight reel play to first. Now like you said, a good SS probably gets to that spot and does not even need a highlight reel play. But when Machado reached down for that ball, I think Machado sincerely thought he was in good position to get the ball and was going to come up with it. Would not have he dove if he thought he was not within arm's reach of the ball? And this goes back to my coordination concern in that Machado might still be getting used to the length of his strides, and maybe even his own reach. Because once again, wouldn't he have just dove if he felt he was not going to be able to scoop the ball?

You made a comment: "You could say he didn't get 100% effort to get over there, but that's really damning with faint praise, isn't it?" I thought about this, and I think there might be something to this. Machado has an obvious swagger to him in the field. Now I am not saying he purposely dogs it out there, but maybe he just has a natural overestimation of his abilities when it comes to getting to certain areas on the field. He makes everything look very easy when he's fielding, but maybe that's because he is going too easy. That is not saying anything against his style of play or his work ethic, but maybe Machado just needs to consciously put it into overdrive every once and awhile. How about Joe Flacco with his five-step drop backs? Like Machado, Joe has a natural slow-but-graceful approach to his footwork. But when Zorn got on Joe to speed everything up and Joe made the conscious effort, he was able to improve the speed of his drop-backs. Sometimes you just need to make yourself conscious of form and effort in order to get that extra ability out of yourself. Once again this goes back to Machado knowing his own range and limitations, something I do not think he's figured out yet.

Now I am not saying Machado has potential to have excellent range. I am just saying if Machado really puts in some serious agility, plyo work and figures out his own range and limitations in the field, that could be the difference between him having average to above-average range. Tell me what you think. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.


×
×
  • Create New...