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Advocating Carlos Pena for 1B in 2012

Enjoy Terror

By Enjoy Terror
in Orioles Talk

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BaltimoreTerp Hangout Grand Counsel

BaltimoreTerp

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When I was 22 I thought I knew everything, too. Especially about baseball. What you'll probably learn over time is that the distinctions between opinions become blurred, and that you'll be forced to be a lot less absolute in your statements.

And no one is going to give your ideas any more weight because you got a 680 on the math SAT. There are lots of smart folks in the world. We'll consider what you say if you present it in a clear, concise, logical way, with facts to back it up. Preferably facts that are from multiple sources and points of view, couched in terms that make clear that your metrics aren't 100% accurate, but more like probability density functions with varying levels of accuracy.

I got a 600 on that section. Just means I know how to do high-school math.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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I can point to many many posts in which AJ and NM our said to be good outfielders above average etc....
Jones is probably average or so. Nick is average to slightly above. Your claim that they are basically DH's is both wrong and stupid.
But really that everyone comment was more directed towards everyone in the FO....DD and Buck have tried to make it seem as tho a Reynolds/Davis corner INF is a legit Major league one...Clearly it isn't.
What other options do they have? And btw, I would figure your way over the top obsession with defense would lead you to want Davis over at first, who by all reports has always been good defensively over there.
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Roll Tide Hangout Grand Counsel

Roll Tide

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Hear me out on this;

It is extremely unlikely we will land Prince Fielder. I feel comfortable making that assertion. To my chagrin, I am fully prepared for the season to begin with Chris Davis and Mark Reynolds splitting time at 1B. That said, I will be thrilled if the Orioles sign Prince, in much the same way I will be thrilled to win the Powerball tomorrow.

I am advocating the signing of Carlos Pena to be our first baseman for 2012.

Carlos Pena is a very similar player to Mark Reynolds in many aspects. Both are huge strikeout guys. Carlos finished his season with the Cubs batting a healthy .225/.357/.462 with 28 home runs in 606PAs. His September was even better: .229/.432/.543. Pena was also a plus defender at 1B.

I think an infield of Pena, Wieters, Roberts/Antonelli, Hardy and Andino at 3B gives us a very solid defensive infield. I think Reynolds as a full time DH is the only way to properly use him, to offset his fielding liabilities. Chris Davis is a better bench option than everyday player.

True, Pena is an older player and does not figure into our long term plans at all, but I think that if the Orioles are not serious about getting a young player like Rizzo, Alonso or Blanks, that Pena is a cost effective option for the next year or two.

This is where you tell me why I'm wrong and also an idiot. Go.

NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO on to Pena ... He isnt a OBP guy and we dont need another 150K sub .250 hitter ...I dont believe he's hit over .227 in the last 4 seasons...Id rather they go get Blanks from SD and commit to him.

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atomic Hangout Grand Counsel

atomic

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Its the fact that everyone refuses to acknowledge that our team D is horrible and some guys just shouldn't be where they are....AJ is not a CFer...he is a LFer with a good arm.

Reimold has shown himself to be a DH type, he looked passable last year but who knows this year he could be average in Left or a DH plain and simple..

NM is a below average RF with a decent arm...thats it he just doesn't have the range he used to and will likely get worse with age.

Reynolds is why the DH spot was made, he is a DH pure and simple anyone who thinks otherwise is lying to themselves..

So what problem do you have with those statements SG?

And to say I can't interpret stats is dumb I got a 5 on my AP test in stats in highschool in 11th grade (I was 16 now 22) which I recieved 6 credits for in college....Me and 1 other person got above a 3 (which is passing) in the whole school..Also got a 680 on my SAT in math which is like the 99.8 percentile. I am working on a BA in fiance which requires some math skills by the way.And I have been following these stats since they first came around..I know my stuff and anyone who thinks otherwise because I take out side the box stances in every thread is kidding themselves.

I got higher than 680 in math when I took the SAT's and higher scores are easier to get now. So there. But seriously you make some good points... did you apply for the orioles internship? If I were your age I would do it.

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Enjoy Terror Hangout Grand Counsel

Enjoy Terror

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NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO on to Pena ... He isnt a OBP guy and we dont need another 150K sub .250 hitter ...I dont believe he's hit over .227 in the last 4 seasons...Id rather they go get Blanks from SD and commit to him.

He's not an OBP guy? He has a career .352 OBP.

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crissfan172 Hangout Grand Counsel

crissfan172

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Its the fact that everyone refuses to acknowledge that our team D is horrible and some guys just shouldn't be where they are....AJ is not a CFer...he is a LFer with a good arm.

Reimold has shown himself to be a DH type, he looked passable last year but who knows this year he could be average in Left or a DH plain and simple..

NM is a below average RF with a decent arm...thats it he just doesn't have the range he used to and will likely get worse with age.

Reynolds is why the DH spot was made, he is a DH pure and simple anyone who thinks otherwise is lying to themselves..

So what problem do you have with those statements SG?

And to say I can't interpret stats is dumb I got a 5 on my AP test in stats in highschool in 11th grade (I was 16 now 22) which I recieved 6 credits for in college....Me and 1 other person got above a 3 (which is passing) in the whole school..Also got a 680 on my SAT in math which is like the 99.8 percentile. I am working on a BA in fiance which requires some math skills by the way.And I have been following these stats since they first came around..I know my stuff and anyone who thinks otherwise because I take out side the box stances in every thread is kidding themselves.

Look...nobody's questioning your ability to interpret the stats. The fact is, though, that defensive stats aren't completely reliable, and there are plenty of well-respected baseball writers (namely Keith Law) who will tell you that. Forming opinions based on the what the stats tell you just isn't a good idea when it comes to defense.

That being said, I do agree that our defense is not very good, but it's not nearly as bad as you think it is. I would say that Reimold is a below average left fielder, Jones is slightly below average in center, but Nick is a very good right fieder. He doesn't have great range, but he does everything else well. He gets good jumps, takes good routes, and doesn't make mistakes. Couple that with a great arm, and you have one of the best right fielders in baseball. If you move into the infield, it's pretty clear that Reynolds is not a good fielder. His main problem is errors, so he would actually probably be average to slightly above average at 1B since most of his miscues are throwing errors or fielding errors caused by rushing. Hardy is a great SS and Andino is average at 2B. I haven't see Davis enough to form an opinion of him at 1B or 3B, but reports are that he's a very good defensive first baseman. Add in Wieters, who is unbelievable, and you have a defense with 3 great defenders, 3 averagish defenders, 1 bad defender, and 1 horrible defender. It's certainly not a great defense, but it's not horrible either, especially if get Reynolds to 1B or DH.

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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When I was 22 I thought I knew everything. I even smoked a pipe so everyone could see how wise I was. Now I'm 65 and I know I know everything, but Mayor Blumberg won't let me smoke my pipe anywhere in NYC, so no one will ever know how much I know. :newcry:

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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

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I'm not sure I get this argument that states that Pena shouldn't be signed because Davis needs to play.

I agree that Davis should play, but there seems to still be a spot at DH available. Pena and Davis could combine to play 1B and DH.

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Roll Tide Hangout Grand Counsel

Roll Tide

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You realize that 2011 MLB average OBP was .321, and .352 OBP would have led the O's last year?

Who cares ?

.227, .196, .225 Average in his last 3 season over 163,158, & 161 K's over three years

1758 ABs 482 Ks 313 Hits ...... Again No Thanks ...the guys is Reynolds with less power 39,28,28 Homers ..The 11 homers drop off 2 seasons ago is troubling..... Again NO THANKS!

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