Orioles don't like the cutter (part deuce) - Peterson speaks

[CA-ORIOLE]

http://www.masnsports.com/steve_melewski/2012/08/more-talk-about-the-pitch-the-orioles-dont-want-their-young-hurlers-to-throw.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Wow, this one is even more revealing than DD's interview. Much of this has already been speculated, but the remarks from Peterson would indicate they are much more locked in on this philosophy than I thought, and he doesn't want Bundy throwing the cutter even in sideline sessions (or ever as an Oriole). Also, they are in fact very speciifc about what they are looking for in development and going forward, particularly so with Bundy.

Yeah, we'd like them to develop the curveball or the slider as the primary breaking ball, something that has depth to it, not something that is flat. And the cutter is a pitch that typically is thrown later on in your career, often after you've been in the big leagues several years. Be it Roy Halladay, be it Cliff Lee, those are pitches they developed later in their career, not when they were young starting pitchers coming through the minor leagues.

"We're trying to develop Dylan Bundy into the same kind of model of a Justin Verlander. You know, power fastball, curveball, changeup pitcher. Not a fastball, cutter, changeup."

Q. Does Dylan throw that pitch during side sessions?

A. "No, he doesn't throw it all. He hasn't thrown it since spring training, to my knowledge. Unless he's thrown it and I don't know about it, which would surprise me."

Q. Is there a chance that when Dylan Bundy gets to the majors that he can start using that pitch again?

A."Everything is a possibility. But if Dylan develops the way we hope he develops, he might not need a cutter to be effective. (Justin) Verlander doesn't throw one. And he developed his changeup late. Hopefully Dylan won't need that pitch until he becomes a free agent (laughs).

[Babypowder]

Becoming a free agent as soon as possible seems a lot more likely since we've taken away his favorite pitch for good. I know he and his father already aren't happy about it.

[SurhoffRules]

http://www.masnsports.com/steve_melewski/2012/08/more-talk-about-the-pitch-the-orioles-dont-want-their-young-hurlers-to-throw.html?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

Wow, this one is even more revealing han DD's interview. Much of what has already been sepeculated but the remarks from Peterson would indicate they are much more locked in on this philosophy than I thought and he doesn't want Bundy throwing the cutter even in sideline sessions (or ever as an Oriole). Also they are in fact very speciifc about what they are looking for in development and going forward, particularly so with Bundy.

Yeah, but there's also this which sounds pretty like a pretty targeted argument that seams entirely reasonable. If the cutter is displacing the majority fastballs, they see that as bad for young player development. I'm a bit surprised Bundy is not supposed to be throwing it at any time, but it sounds like they've decided on a direction for their young pitchers as an organization and are implementing it.

"I'm not saying the cutter is not a good pitch, don't misunderstand me. A cutter used effectively is a nice addition to your arsenal. But a cutter thrown 40 percent of the time for a young power pitcher can become a crutch, then your velocity drops and you fail to develop your changeup and a breaking ball that has depth to it. The cutter overused is normally not displacing changeups and curveballs, it's displacing fastballs."

[Moose Milligan]

I still don't understand the disdain for the pitch, but whatever. Why's he have to be limited to fastball/curve/change? Again, I'm not saying he should be throwing the cutter a ton, but to give a batter a different look on the third time through the lineup isn't a bad idea.

Anyway, for those that are worried about Peterson bolting at the end of the year, it doesn't seem likely if he and DD see this eye to eye on everything. I can't imagine Peterson leaving after instilling all the rules and philosophies that he has.

Becoming a free agent as soon as possible seems a lot more likely since we've taken away his favorite pitch for good. I know he and his father already aren't happy about it.

Money talks.

[Since'54]

This is all very hard to understand. Seems to be a series of assertions unsupported by any evidence. Also seems to violate the If it ain't broke, don't fix it rule. It's at least possible that the Oriole interference with the way Matusz was pitching may have aborted his development. I hate to see monkeying with successful approaches.

[SoBo]

By all accounts the Bundy crew has signed off on this plan. It is odd that both of the O's top pitching prospects are being asked dump a pitch. Now Gausman's curve has never been remotely considered his best pitch. I don't think there is a huge story here.

[SurhoffRules]

Money talks.

Agreed. You're talking about something that's 6 or 7 years out. This current Orioles fans problem....this is future Orioles fans problem

[Pickles]

Well, clearly there is a system in place for developing pitching. Time will tell how effective it is.

[jtschrei]

I love Rick Peterson. I love DD. I love that we have a pitching philosophy. I mean seriously, McPhail seemed so behind on this. Not since Leo Mazzone, and maybe not even then, have we had a clear, organization wide pitching philosophy. Interesting that he said Oakland shares the same pitching philosophy as we do.

I expect DD to hire someone to correct the hitting in the offseason. I expect an organization-wide commitment to OBP and upping the pitch count to begin next season.

[Tx Oriole]

Becoming a free agent as soon as possible seems a lot more likely since we've taken away his favorite pitch for good. I know he and his father already aren't happy about it.

Sorry, but how do you know?

[isestrex]

I love Rick Peterson. I love DD. I love that we have a pitching philosophy. I mean seriously, McPhail seemed so behind on this. Not since Leo Mazzone, and maybe not even then, have we had a clear, organization wide pitching philosophy. Interesting that he said Oakland shares the same pitching philosophy as we do.

I expect DD to hire someone to correct the hitting in the offseason. I expect an organization-wide commitment to OBP and upping the pitch count to begin next season.

This is pretty much exactly what I thought after reading this. That article really helped alleviate some concerns for me.

Fact: The Orioles pitching development has turned out one successful starter over the past 15 years (Bedard)

I'm pretty excited to see this organization come out and stamp down something strong and definitive. The old way certainly wasn't working... like at all... and even though this "no cutter" seemed crazy at first glance, the more I read and the more I hear, the more I understand the logic. Being charged with 2 of the top pitching prospects in all of baseball is a huge responsibility. I actually feel a little more confidence after reading Peterson than I would have under the old regime.

[Frobby]

Becoming a free agent as soon as possible seems a lot more likely since we've taken away his favorite pitch for good. I know he and his father already aren't happy about it.

That is the least of my worries. If the O's develop Bundy into a good/great pitcher, he's not going to care that they took away his cutter. If they don't develop him into a good/great pitcher, the O's probably won't try to keep him.

Anyway, reading the quotes, it sounds to me like what the O's want to do is develop his fastball/curve/change-up. I don't think they have ruled out Bundy using a cutter at some point, but they would want to see it used as a complementary pitch a few times a game, not as a staple. That is how Bedard used his, very effectively.

The whole interview is worth reading. I'm happy that the Orioles have a coherent pitching philosophy and I think Peterson's track record warrants some deference.

[Since'54]

That is the least of my worries. If the O's develop Bundy into a good/great pitcher, he's not going to care that they took away his cutter. If they don't develop him into a good/great pitcher, the O's probably won't try to keep him.

Anyway, reading the quotes, it sounds to me like what the O's want to do is develop his fastball/curve/change-up. I don't think they have ruled out Bundy using a cutter at some point, but they would want to see it used as a complementary pitch a few times a game, not as a staple. That is how Bedard used his, very effectively.

The whole interview is worth reading. I'm happy that the Orioles have a coherent pitching philosophy and I think Peterson's track record warrants some deference.

I'd like to think that you are correct here as the alternative is alarming -- that Bundy is not going to be allowed to use the pitch that got him where he is. But that's not how I read the quotes from Duquette and Peterson. Certainly no one would argue against the development/improvement of other pitches, but why at the exclusion of what Bundy already is good at? Even during practice sessions!

You feel Peterson's track record warrants some deference. I feel he needs to provide some evidence that throwing a cutter lowers pitching velocity. For whom? When?

[Gurgi]

I am of two minds about this.

How hard is it to get a pitcher to keep throwing a 4 seamer and a cutter? Arent these guys capable of chewing gum and walking at the same time? Couldnt we tell the kid he is on a cutter limit? Like once an inning or something?

If we went ahead and drafted the kid as the number one pitcher in a whole draft class and we scouted him I assume? I assume we knew his favorite pitch was the cutter?

I kind of dislike the whole NO YOUNG draftees can throw it. It stinks of dogma.

[SurhoffRules]

I'd like to think that you are correct here as the alternative is alarming -- that Bundy is not going to be allowed to use the pitch that got him where he is. But that's not how I read the quotes from Duquette and Peterson. Certainly no one would argue against the development/improvement of other pitches' date=' but why at the exclusion of what Bundy already is good at? Even during practice sessions!

[/quote']

I'd take issue with the fact that the cutter was "what got him here."

Dylan's last year prior being drafted he went 11-0 with 1 save and 0.20 ERA. In 71 innings he yielded 20 H, 2 ER, 5 BBs, and struck out 158.....even without the cutter in HS, he probably would have destroyed those poor kids anyway.

This years without his cutters he's pitched across 3 levels to the tune of a 2.01 ERA. In 98.1 innings he's giving up 63 hits, 22 ERs, 24 walks and struck out 113. All without his cutter. He's adjusting to AA now as a 19 year old.

I think he'll probably reintroduce it at some point because it's clear that he likes the pitch, but as of now, he's doing well and has been very disciplined to do what his coaches are asking of him.