Keith Law is not impressed (in 2012, but he is in 2014)

[joe42]

I give him no credit at all. Quite the opposite. I can understand his preseason prediction. Hell I can understand his feeling in June that the team would fold at some point. On Sept 4th when he was babbling about how they were "lucky" he just sounded stupid. Now he sounds like a complete idiot and frankly its pretty clear the guy is an egomaniac who cannot say a few simple words like..... I WAS WRONG.

Typical behavior of an arrogant pompous egomaniac....simple as that

Very well said!

[Ruzious]

They have defied all odds to get here, but in the end - all that matters in evaluating them is their record. If they win 95 games, there's no way around them being a 95 win team, and Law's opinion means nothing.

[dscola]

Where was Keith Law when that microwave caught on fire on the O's plane? Hmmmm...

[Slappy]

I think Keith would be taken more seriously if he changed "good" to "talented". You can't sit there and say a 92 win team is not good - only your record determines that. If his stat and scouting skills make him believe that the team is not as talented as their record, I don't necessarily have a problem with that. He just words things in a way that begs for confrontation.

[UMDTerrapins]

Aside from being galactically petty, he's a great symbol for people who have detached from the game itself in favor of stats and theory. The game is still played by men on a field, and the best teams have the best records. There are a good number of good teams who go home in three days. The Orioles were better than all of them. To say we're not very good, only discredits Law. As if 162 games aren't enough to separate the best from the rest. Not being snobbish because this has been a 6 month thrill ride and nobody here is engineered to be cocky after the past 15 seasons. But our guys earned respect. Screw Law.

[hoosiers]

We'll have to see how this plays out next year, IMO, regarding our luck and talent level. I do think we have played some undermanned teams in Boston and Toronto a lot recently and I can see how someone like KLaw is finding it difficult to accept Baltimore victories from a rotation that includes Steve Johnson, Joe Saunders and Randy Wolf.

While understanding the insistence that we are not an elite/great time, the issue I have with KLaw (and Olney and others) is their inability to admit how much they misjudged this team and how there is so much more talent than acknowledged at the beginning of the season (both on the field and in the front office). Even if we were at 81 or 82 teams which would be more in line with our pythag and lowers our record in extra innings and one-run games to something more normal, that is 10+ wins better than expectations (a very large number).

[baltfan]

We'll have to see how this plays out next year, IMO, regarding our luck and talent level. I do think we have played some undermanned teams in Boston and Toronto a lot recently and I can see how someone like KLaw is finding it difficult to accept Baltimore victories from a rotation that includes Steve Johnson, Joe Saunders and Randy Wolf.

While understanding the insistence that we are not an elite/great time, the issue I have with KLaw (and Olney and others) is their inability to admit how much they misjudged this team and how there is so much more talent than acknowledged at the beginning of the season (both on the field and in the front office). Even if we were at 81 or 82 teams which would be more in line with our pythag and lowers our record in extra innings and one-run games to something more normal, that is 10+ wins better than expectations (a very large number).

While the above is true, we have also been beating those teams. Good teams beat up on the weaker ones.

[callahan09]

All alone best record in baseball since July 24.

Tied for the best record in baseball (with the Reds) since July 17.

All alone best record in the American League since July 15.

Tied for the best record in the American League (with the Rangers and Yankees) since April 11.

All alone best record in the American League in September, and no team in baseball had more wins in September.

Yep... I see his point. This team just isn't very good.

[Frobby]

We'll have to see how this plays out next year, IMO, regarding our luck and talent level. I do think we have played some undermanned teams in Boston and Toronto a lot recently and I can see how someone like KLaw is finding it difficult to accept Baltimore victories from a rotation that includes Steve Johnson, Joe Saunders and Randy Wolf.

We played the Yankees to a 9-9 standoff. We beat the White Sox 6-2. We split 3-3 with Detroit. We're ahead of the Rays 9 games to 6. We took 4 of 6 from the Nats. I'm not apologizing for our schedule, the 6th toughest in baseball this year.

Only time will tell whether the Orioles caught lightning in a bottle in 2012, but for 2012, they earned everything they got.

[ShaneDawg85]

Seriously people, :eektf: Keith Law. I've not understood the fascination with what this man says all season, and I certainly don't get it now. Why does it matter? The answer is it doesn't. People are going to believe what they want to believe, no matter how illogical or stubborn it might be. He thinks they're not that good, or that next year will show what they really are, good for him, a lot of people out there probably think the same thing. But do you know what, I don't care. I don't care about next year right now. I don't care what the law of averages says, the Pythagorean W-L, and all the rest of it, because this team has defied all of them all season long, and that's where it counts and where it matters. Plenty of respected and talented reporters and commentators have given this team the praise that they deserve, I mean we have one of them on this very board. Why let the comments of one person, who clearly has something against the front office administration of the team, matter to you? They don't to me, and they shouldn't to you. It's about wins, and what's to come folks, and I'm sticking to it.

[hoosiers]

We played the Yankees to a 9-9 standoff. We beat the White Sox 6-2. We split 3-3 with Detroit. We're ahead of the Rays 9 games to 6. We took 4 of 6 from the Nats. I'm not apologizing for our schedule, the 6th toughest in baseball this year.

Only time will tell whether the Orioles caught lightning in a bottle in 2012, but for 2012, they earned everything they got.

I was just pointing out that we have benefited the last two weeks from player weak teams from Boston and Toronto - certainly weaker versions of these teams than existed in the past and earlier this season. Do you disagree?

[Spoonless]

It's late, and I'm too cheap and lazy to have any software beyond MS Paint, but this thread makes me imagine this:

I know this probably falls under the "lazy" part of your statement, but GIMP is free (open source) and pretty powerful.

[Spoonless]

This is correct. His position really isn't inconsistent on this. I think if the O's manage to repeat their success from this year in 2013, you'll see Keith start to change his tune.

It depends on what moves the Orioles make. Should they make a decent move or two over the offseason, he'll always be able to say that their 2013 success is due to the changes made from 2012, and that the 2012 team was still not a good team.

[jtschrei]

I don't care what Keith Law thinks anymore. The Orioles are more than the sum of their parts. Wins are wins, that is the ultimate measure of whether a team is good or not. In other words, I think he's overlooking the most important metric of them all. Wins baby! 91 and counting. Wow. Who would've thunk that in April?!?!?!

BTW: Is this the same Keith Law who predicted big things out of the Royals this year?!?!

[PeteU]

What's a Keith Law?