Roch: Tigers covet Hardy

[Roll Tide]

You seem to know a lot about him. Is he a plus defender at third base?

Not sure ...he made 15 errors at 3B in 78 games. That doesn't always tell the story with poor MIlb fields. But he also played 51 games in the OF. He also made 23 errors his 1st season. So he could end up being a OF or 1B. I like his bat and everything I've read about it.

[Roll Tide]

FWIW here's what Sickels has to say. See's him as a B+ Prospect:1) Nick Castellanos, OF-3B, Grade B+: Borderline A-. I'm not quite as high on him as some people are; he has some holes in his game including lack of patience, home run power that hasn't fully developed yet, defensive uncertainty, struggles in Double-A. An elite talent, yes, but with enough doubts to preclude an A-grade for me. "

His 1st full Milb season he had 10 more extra base hits than Machado. Machado was a year younger 18/19. Their OPS numbers are comparable. Castellanos would have to have a monster year this season and make the jump to AAA with success at very least.

FYI he was the 45th best prospect per 2012 and now he's #10.

[CA-ORIOLE]

FWIW here's what Sickels has to say. See's him as a B+ Prospect:1) Nick Castellanos, OF-3B, Grade B+: Borderline A-. I'm not quite as high on him as some people are; he has some holes in his game including lack of patience, home run power that hasn't fully developed yet, defensive uncertainty, struggles in Double-A. An elite talent, yes, but with enough doubts to preclude an A-grade for me. "

Thanks. Sickles has some of the same concerns I do.

[Number5]

His 1st full Milb season he had 10 more extra base hits than Machado. Machado was a year younger 18/19. Their OPS numbers are comparable. Castellanos would have to have a monster year this season and make the jump to AAA with success at very least.

FYI he was the 45th best prospect per 2012 and now he's #10.

Are you sure he is #10 now? BA hasn't come out with their top 100 yet, have they? Are you sure you aren't referring to last year's mid-season ranking, which was prior to his AA struggles? They do still have him as their #1 for Detroit, so maybe they do still have him ranked top 10, but, personally, I'd be more inclined to think Sickels makes a good point. Still a good prospect, no doubt, but I'm not so sure about top 10, at least until he shows that last year's second half was just a minor blip.

[Il BuonO]

Neither of which should be confused with Rodan, the rampaging Japanese monster.

Ya gotta love a reference to an obscure Japanese movie monster in the middle of one of the most interesting threads about our SS I've ever seen.

[Tryptamine]

I don't know, NC State's Rodan is definitely a monster. Pretty much the consensus #1 player in the 2014 draft at this point.

[Il BuonO]

On the serious side, after reading this entire thread I would say Vogelbach sounds like a better fit for the future and any talk of Strop as closer means he should be included in trade talks so OTHER teams can try him out in that role and I don't ever have to hear that he is the heir apparent to Johnson.

That is all.

[bradyrocks]

Jesus... that Vogelbach kids swing looks identical to Jim Thome. i was going to say a younger Jim Thome, but nope, he pretty much looks like 45year old Thome.

He could be the next Babe Ruth, but you still cant make a player with that big of an athletic hinderance be your centerpiece in any deal...especially in A ball. Im not saying he doesnt have potential, but he has more hills to climb than your average player, and his dad isnt Cecil Fielder.

[Tryptamine]

To be honest I'll be quite upset if Vogelbach is dealt this year. He could absolutely rocket up the prospect rankings if he hits in A and A+ anywhere near he did last year in short season. Kid has tremendous power; he hit a 508FT HR in a HR derby back in 2011.

From a Cub Blog called ObsctructedView

I thought this was pretty low. Vogelbach is absolutely a prospect in the majors, even if he can’t field. Vogelbach had the 6th highest wOBA last year, IN THE ENTIRE MINOR LEAGUES. 2 people ahead of him were 33 and 32 in Mexican Leagues; they don’t count. His ISO power numbers last year were 2nd in the entire minors: only Joey Gallo hit for more power. Vogelbach is one of 5 or 10 best hitting prospects in baseball, no question. There’s incredible value in that, even if he’s only a DH. He’ll get every chance to play 1B whatever level he’s at (A to start this year, most likely), and if he hits anywhere near what he did last season I wouldn’t be surprised if he was knocking down the door in 2014.

[Il BuonO]

Jesus... that Vogelbach kids swing looks identical to Jim Thome. i was going to say a younger Jim Thome, but nope, he pretty much looks like 45year old Thome.

He could be the next Babe Ruth, but you still cant make a player with that big of an athletic hinderance be your centerpiece in any deal...especially in A ball. Im not saying he doesnt have potential, but he has more hills to climb than your average player, and his dad isnt Cecil Fielder.

Maybe Brady gets a hold of him? That is if he can get a hold of anything that big. :wedge:

[bluedog]

The Tigers can covet all they want. They are not getting Hardy. Buck loves the guy.

I love Hardy too, but if there's ever been a sell high opportunity for a veteran O's player this is it. Hardy is coming off back to back stellar defensive seasons and we have his replacement standing 90 feet away. I doubt we're going to see Hardy getting better in the future and his offensive was pretty clearly a liability last year. If the Tigers covet him, then we need to figure out a way to parlay Hardy into a young stud at 3b while he still has significant trade value, instead of holding onto him too long and ending up with nothing once he begins to decline.

The O's have a boatload of trade assets right now. DD should be able to swing Hardy + young pitchers who don't have a clear spot with the team into young solutions at 1b & 3b. I have faith he'll make that happen.

[O's Greatness]

Hardy & Strop for Nick C (Future Power 3rd base), Peralta 3rd and Porcello Nick could be ready by the middle of the year, Peralta has better offensive numbers than JJ and 3rd should improve his defense which has most of it's issues around range and we get the experienced innings eater. I would still leave Patton available to get Morse for 1st base.

[kyleott]

I love Hardy too, but if there's ever been a sell high opportunity for a veteran O's player this is it. Hardy is coming off back to back stellar defensive seasons and we have his replacement standing 90 feet away. I doubt we're going to see Hardy getting better in the future and his offensive was pretty clearly a liability last year. If the Tigers covet him, then we need to figure out a way to parlay Hardy into a young stud at 3b while he still has significant trade value, instead of holding onto him too long and ending up with nothing once he begins to decline.

The O's have a boatload of trade assets right now. DD should be able to swing Hardy + young pitchers who don't have a clear spot with the team into young solutions at 1b & 3b. I have faith he'll make that happen.

I see your logic, but technically the best opportunity to sell high on him would be after a potential bounce back offensive season. If he could have a .270/.330/.450 line, he would bring back a very good haul in a trade.

Also, I too have heard concerns with Castellanos, and that he has some holes in his swing and strikeout concerns. I would be all for a Vogelbach trade, however question whether or not we match up with the Cubs without the Tigers apparent coveting.

[pdiddy]

Ya gotta love a reference to an obscure Japanese movie monster in the middle of one of the most interesting threads about our SS I've ever seen.

He doesn't get the play he deserves.

I'm torn on Hardy...he's only 30. If they keep him and he finds his 2011 bat again, I could see the team flip flopping Hardy and Manny in 14 and making the decision on keeping him or letting him walk/deadline trade then. How Schoop progresses would inform on that decision for sure.

If a deal is really out there for Porcello/Castellanos though I think it is definitely worth pursuing. I'd be happy to let Hardy be this team's Bordick and welcome him back in three years as a FA if we need him.

[Stotle]

I don't know, NC State's Rodan is definitely a monster. Pretty much the consensus #1 player in the 2014 draft at this point.

WAY premature. Nick Gordon just killed it this past weekend. Up to 94 on the mound as is looking like a beast at shortstop and at the plate. 6.65 60yd.