Should we just spend like drunken sailors for the next 2.5 seasons no matter the long term effects?

[Three Run Homer]

Spending money doesn't have to mean that the team is mortgaging the future. Spending becomes a problem if it means making expensive commitments to aging players, or if it means giving up too many high draft picks or prospects.

The O's need to be willing to spend to lock up premium players in their prime, but they need to be hard nosed about fan favorites who are on the wrong side of 30. The O's should probably try to extend CD for 5 or 6 years right now, but Markakis and Hardy should probably be allowed to leave after next season if they aren't willing to extend at a reasonable price for a reasonable period of time (2-3 years).

They should absolutely be willing to sign a top free agent pitcher this offseason, but ideally it will be one that doesn't require surrendering a draft pick. Garza should be the leading target (assuming he's traded), and the O's should be willing to get in a bidding war for him.

[bpilktree]

And that $15 million going to Markakis goes away in 2014.

Right the Yankees did a great job of keeping a core of guys and then filling the roster in with young guys in the late 90's when a playor got old they let them go. They had Wetland and they groomed Rivera to be the closer to take over and save money. They also had guys like Pettite who took over as a young pitcher at that time. Later on they started trading the guys away and getting older and more expensive. The last 5-6 years they have made bad moves which is why they are where they are now they had the young prospects but traded them away for older guys then had to sign more expensive guys. They had guys like Austin Jackson, Jose tabata, Ian Kennedy, Tylet Clippord all of which are young guys contributing and all they got was older and more expensive.

[Can_of_corn]

Then how is USA today come up with their figure of $90,933?

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/mlb/salaries/2013/all/team/all/

Because I gave you Tampa's payroll.

[luismatos4prez]

Nate McLouth: 1.6 WAR

Michael Bourn: 1.4 WAR

Nick Swisher: 1.3 WAR

Josh Hamilton: 0.8 WAR

Adam LaRoche: 0.1 WAR

Mark Reynolds: -0.2 WAR

BJ Upton: -0.4 WAR

Funny how things work out.

[Redskins Rick]

Because I gave you Tampa's payroll.

Duh, sorry, the Marlins was the Florida team I meant to say, and even the Astros are lower than that.

I was concentrating on the O's payroll.

[pcbothwel]

And that $15 million going to Markakis goes away in 2014.

Exactly...I think people are over thinking it. We lose 20M between Kakes and Wada. Wada has done nothing so far and Markakis is not looking too hot the last 3 years. I think we can easily sit between 95-105M for a few years and compete, easy. While it may not seem like a ton of money, letting guys like Matusz, Reimold, and Betemit go is free money as none of them (maybe Matusz) has contributed anything special to the team this year and Reimold has been a net negative so far.

Combine that with the 10M from Roberts and possibly another 12-13M from Hammels/JJ and you have a lot of flexibility.

[Il BuonO]

So, one way we could look at this is that our window of opportunity is right now, and if we have to spend to get the additional players we need to make a serious WS run, maybe we should do it even if that means that in 5 years we'll start to be the 2012 Phillies.

But if we're in true contender mode now, do we owe it to ourselves to "go for it?"

Yes, we do.

What if they do what the Red Sox did last offseason? Pay a fair number of quality free agents going rate for a 1-2 year commitment?

I would definitely like to see a splash in the FA SP department. Its time to get an ace. If there was even someone like Garza thrown into the rotation that could push Chen to #2, Tillman #3, and so forth and would do wonders. I'll wait for it and probably check MLBTR everyday this off season feeling in the pit of my stomach "this is it!" And will come up disappointed. That's really a hard pressing need and quite literally one single player could take this team to a different level.

Not to sound too negative because I'm not generally negative but a lot of things will need to go right to squeeze into the playoffs this year. If there was a TOR guy in there somewhere I would feel completely different. The rotation is treading water and needs to get way better if anyone wants to see some real solid contention.

Anyways...not a drunken sailor but overpay to make sure to get your guy (for once)....yes, absolutely.

There usually is a TOR. I'm not sure that I believe with all the injuries the Phillies have that they can't be persuaded to part with Lee for the right offer. He is an ace. Garza is not. If I'm overpaying to get us over the hump right now it's for the real deal, not the cheap imitation.

And C o c's idea has real merit. Why does it have to be all or nothing? It should be a well thought out combination of ideologies that create a winning team. It should be about building your team from within but if we can do that there are always going to be guys who just can't translate their abilities to the ML level. Low priced FA infused with home grown talent and maybe one super star if needed should not be out of the question.

Now would be the time. The window won't be open that long.

[Can_of_corn]

Of course "my" idea is actually Boston's idea. I was just paying attention to what they were doing last offseason. (While thinking they were wasting money because the core wasn't good enough)

[Il BuonO]

Of course "my" idea is actually Boston's idea. I was just paying attention to what they were doing last offseason. (While thinking they were wasting money because the core wasn't good enough)

Right. It looks like a better way than just throwing a lot of money at the problem though.

[Can_of_corn]

Right. It looks like a better way than just throwing a lot of money at the problem though.

More money for less years seems like the way to go.

[Tx Oriole]

It occurs to me that:

1. We may not be able to keep Davis beyond 2015.

2. We may not be able to keep Wieters beyond 2015.

3. Hardy is only under contract through 2014.

4. Markakis is signed through 2014, with an option for 2015.

5. We have a ton of players who are in their absolute prime right now, but will be hitting their 30's in three years or less.

6. We are a contending team right now, but we have some holes that probably mean we'll fall short of being a World Champion.

So, one way we could look at this is that our window of opportunity is right now, and if we have to spend to get the additional players we need to make a serious WS run, maybe we should do it even if that means that in 5 years we'll start to be the 2012 Phillies.

I've always resisted going for short term gain that leads to longer term pain. That's more or less what happened in the mid-late 90's, and look how long it took to pull out of that tailspin. But if we're in true contender mode now, do we owe it to ourselves to "go for it?"

I still think the better case is that we need to build for the long term, but it's food for thought.

I would not want the FO to send like that.

[CA-ORIOLE]

More money for less years seems like the way to go.

Yeah, maybe the FA dynamics have shifted a bit. Still, we did a pretty terrible job of it for quite awhile. That said, I think BOS and CLE did pretty effective jobs of filling holes in the roster with minimal risk through free agency this year. I don't think any of the BOS guys signed are doing particularly well though (maybe Victorino and the BP guys). The guys they already had in place are carrying most of the load.

[BRobinsonfan]

He don't need no stinkin' WS.

Now you sound just like Tom Banner.

[waroriole]

If we can supplement this group with some 2 year deals this offseason, we should go for that.

We could also look to deal Wieters and/or Davis if they're unwilling to sign a reasonable deal and prepare for the next crop of youngsters we have coming up. Use that saved money to lock up Manny (if possible). It wouldn't really be a rebuild because we should have enough talent to only drop a few games over the next 2 years. Plus, depending on the guys we receive for MW and CD, we could just augment that group with FA and not miss a beat at all.

[24fps]

To an extent, yes. Like Oz says, "Right player, right price", except in baseball, with no salary cap, it's more like, "Right player, reasonable price."

You gotta spend money to make money, so if PA wants to be making more money from the O's, he's gotta spend some while our talent level is at its highest in the last 15 years. Just need some complimentary pieces, nothing too crazy. I definitely don't want to be fighting for that last wild card spot every year, the next 5 years.

There are 20 less attractive alternatives.