Yankee Brian Roberts. (Update: Signs for $2M+)

[Redskins Rick]

Yes, he admitted to taking trying PEDs and telling Bigbie about it, rather than calling Bigbie a liar. He was never caught, though, as far as I know. Nor has anyone ever claimed to have witnessed him doing so.

Usually, when someone is caught with his hand in the cookie jar and claims that it is the first time that he has ever misbehaved, we naturally tend to disbelieve him. In this case, however, there is a ring of truth to it, since the mention in the Mitchell report was simply that Bigbie related a previous conversation in which he recalled that Roberts had once told him that he had tried PEDs a couple of times. As I recall, Roberts was never caught, Bigbie never claimed to have seen him taking PEDs, and the one conversation (heresay) was the sole "evidence" cited about Roberts in the Mitchell report. Or am I "mis-remembering"?

Nope, your memory is fine, just the Robert haters and twisting the truth.

[Elbren]

That explains the huge number of Gold Gloves (0), Silver Sluggers(0) top 20 MVP finishes (1-18th) and all star appearances (2).

Come on now, I know you're better than that. Especially in reguard's to MVP votes, Gold Gloves and A.S. appearances.

- MVP

You know damn well you're not going to see an MVP from a losing team; not unless they put up an absolutely absurd season. In 2004, Tejada put a BA over .300, SLG well over .500, 200+ hits, 30+ HR's and 150 RBI's ... and he barely got into the top 5 in MVP votes.

- All-Star app.

How meaningless is it to point this out? AS votes are completely based off of popularity. How many guys have made the AS team despite either underperforming, or just flat-out being injured for most/all of the entire 1st half? Add to this fact that the AS manager gets to pick the reserves (i.e., he's gonna pick his own guys if he can) and you get any number of guys every year that miss out on the AS Game. In 2008 Kosuke Fukodome made the AS team as a starter. Four of the guys who he "beat out" (they were all reserves) were Matt Holliday, Ryan Ludwick, Corey Hart and Nate McLouth. Holliday, Hart and McLouth put up 20/20 seasons. Ludwick had 37 HR's that season. McLouth had an .853 OPS, Ludwick had a .966 OPS and Holliday had a .947 OPS. Meanwhile, Fukodome put up 10 HR, 12 SB, a .738 OPS, fewer RBI's than all 4 guys and he only beat Hart in runs scored. Are you really going to tell me that Fukodome was better than all 4 of these guys because he beat them in AS votes?

- Gold Gloves

Rafael Palmeiro won a GG in 1999 despite only playing 28 games at first base. That's all you need to know about the GG awards. Markakis only has 1 GG despite being one of the best defensive RF's in baseball.

Can't say much about the zero Silver Slugger's other than it's more of a HR/RBI type award; not exactly stats that are conducive to being a leadoff hitter. Stats that Roberts has been good/ok at, but there have definitely been hitters at second base that better fit that mold.

[mdbdotcom]

Yes, he admitted to taking trying PEDs and telling Bigbie about it, rather than calling Bigbie a liar. He was never caught, though, as far as I know. Nor has anyone ever claimed to have witnessed him doing so.

Usually, when someone is caught with his hand in the cookie jar and claims that it is the first time that he has ever misbehaved, we naturally tend to disbelieve him. In this case, however, there is a ring of truth to it, since the mention in the Mitchell report was simply that Bigbie related a previous conversation in which he recalled that Roberts had once told him that he had tried PEDs a couple of times. As I recall, Roberts was never caught, Bigbie never claimed to have seen him taking PEDs, and the one conversation (heresay) was the sole "evidence" cited about Roberts in the Mitchell report. Or am I "mis-remembering"?

Sounds about right to me. Whether it's true or not we'll never know, and who cares? I just wanted to get in the line about hitting himself on the head with the bat.

[Elbren]

During Roberts' freshman year in 1997, he batted .427, with 102 hits, including 24 doubles, and 47 stolen bases.

Roberts was drafted in 1999. I can only assume those are college numbers, meaning they are irrelevant, if for no other reason than most/all colleges use metal bats.

Roberts first year in the ML's, he put up 2 HR and 12 doubles in 273 AB's. Not too far off his 2003, where he put up 5 HR and 22 doubles in 460 AB's. Then, from 2004 - 2009, he mysteriously put up a 16 HR season, an 18 HR season, 2 seasons w/ 40+ doubles and 3 seasons w/ 50+ doubles.

All that from a guy that showed almost no power in the minor leagues.

[Can_of_corn]

Come on now, I know you're better than that. Especially in reguard's to MVP votes, Gold Gloves and A.S. appearances.

- MVP

You know damn well you're not going to see an MVP from a losing team; not unless they put up an absolutely absurd season. In 2004, Tejada put a BA over .300, SLG well over .500, 200+ hits, 30+ HR's and 150 RBI's ... and he barely got into the top 5 in MVP votes.

- All-Star app.

How meaningless is it to point this out? AS votes are completely based off of popularity. How many guys have made the AS team despite either underperforming, or just flat-out being injured for most/all of the entire 1st half? Add to this fact that the AS manager gets to pick the reserves (i.e., he's gonna pick his own guys if he can) and you get any number of guys every year that miss out on the AS Game. In 2008 Kosuke Fukodome made the AS team as a starter. Four of the guys who he "beat out" (they were all reserves) were Matt Holliday, Ryan Ludwick, Corey Hart and Nate McLouth. Holliday, Hart and McLouth put up 20/20 seasons. Ludwick had 37 HR's that season. McLouth had an .853 OPS, Ludwick had a .966 OPS and Holliday had a .947 OPS. Meanwhile, Fukodome put up 10 HR, 12 SB, a .738 OPS, fewer RBI's than all 4 guys and he only beat Hart in runs scored. Are you really going to tell me that Fukodome was better than all 4 of these guys because he beat them in AS votes?

- Gold Gloves

Rafael Palmeiro won a GG in 1999 despite only playing 28 games at first base. That's all you need to know about the GG awards. Markakis only has 1 GG despite being one of the best defensive RF's in baseball.

Can't say much about the zero Silver Slugger's other than it's more of a HR/RBI type award; not exactly stats that are conducive to being a leadoff hitter. Stats that Roberts has been good/ok at, but there have definitely been hitters at second base that better fit that mold.

You said "one of the best, if not the best". If you want to make a statement of that sort then I can use stuff like GG/SS/MVPS to show that he was not regarded as "one of the best, if not the best" by those following baseball. You set the standard so high that I don't even have to bother to look up stuff like accumulated WAR to disprove it.

Now as to your points.

MVP- Dude, I set the bar at TOP TWENTY. That isn't a high bar for the best at his position.

All Star- How hard should it be for "one of the best, if not the best" second baseman in the game to get the pity selection the O's received? And yet Roberts only managed it once. (We can all agree he was worthy the other time).

GG- Yet again, "one of the best, if not the best" is going to get rewarded like Palmeiro was, like Jeter was. That isn't the case for Roberts.

In all the awards that reward both performance and perception Roberts has not ever been considered "one of the best, if not the best".

He had a nice little career. If his name ever finds itself on the ballot for the HoF he will drop off after the first year.

Now if you want to do it the other way...lets look at 2004-2009 as Roberts "peak".

2004- 15th in WAR for 2nd

2005- 2nd

2006- 11th

2007- 8th

2008- 6th

2009- 9th

Like I said, a nice career. But if you only crack the top 5 in WAR for your position once over your peak, I don't consider you "one of the best, if not the best".

[mdbdotcom]

You said "one of the best, if not the best". If you want to make a statement of that sort then I can use stuff like GG/SS/MVPS to show that he was not regarded as "one of the best, if not the best" by those following baseball. You set the standard so high that I don't even have to bother to look up stuff like accumulated WAR to disprove it.

Now as to your points.

MVP- Dude, I set the bar at TOP TWENTY. That isn't a high bar for the best at his position.

All Star- How hard should it be for "one of the best, if not the best" second baseman in the game to get the pity selection the O's received? And yet Roberts only managed it once. (We can all agree he was worthy the other time).

GG- Yet again, "one of the best, if not the best" is going to get rewarded like Palmeiro was, like Jeter was. That isn't the case for Roberts.

In all the awards that reward both performance and perception Roberts has not ever been considered "one of the best, if not the best".

He had a nice little career. If his name ever finds itself on the ballot for the HoF he will drop off after the first year.

Now if you want to do it the other way...lets look at 2004-2009 as Roberts "peak".

2004- 15th in WAR for 2nd

2005- 2nd

2006- 11th

2007- 8th

2008- 6th

2009- 9th

Like I said, a nice career. But if you only crack the top 5 in WAR for your position once over your peak, I don't consider you "one of the best, if not the best".

Translation: "One of the best at his position" = Only good position player on the Orioles for a time.

[Redskins Rick]

Roberts was drafted in 1999. I can only assume those are college numbers, meaning they are irrelevant, if for no other reason than most/all colleges use metal bats.

Roberts first year in the ML's, he put up 2 HR and 12 doubles in 273 AB's. Not too far off his 2003, where he put up 5 HR and 22 doubles in 460 AB's. Then, from 2004 - 2009, he mysteriously put up a 16 HR season, an 18 HR season, 2 seasons w/ 40+ doubles and 3 seasons w/ 50+ doubles.

All that from a guy that showed almost no power in the minor leagues.

Roberts was an outstanding hitter in college, who cares if it was a metal bat.

So it took him a couple of years to adjust to big league pitcher and become a very good hitter.

As for his doubles, thats probably more from his speed, making doubles from cheap singles, not unlike Manny was doing last season.

[Can_of_corn]

Translation: "One of the best at his position" = Only good position player on the Orioles for a time.

He had a nice career.

4/40 was an overpay that wouldn't have been matched on the open market.

[john316]

Sounds about right to me. Whether it's true or not we'll never know, and who cares? I just wanted to get in the line about hitting himself on the head with the bat.

And I'm glad you did because it actually made me lol.

[Redskins Rick]

He did have a nice career, and because he was so much better than most of the players on his own team, a lot of Orioles fans thought he was more special than he was (IMHO).

I was sorry they extended him. Too much and too long for a diminutive middle infielder his age.

Also keep in mind, 2nd baseball rarely put up HOF numbers and are huge offensive threats with the bat, so when one has a nice career, you tend to over value it. Much like Cano.

[mdbdotcom]

Also keep in mind, 2nd baseball rarely put up HOF numbers and are huge offensive threats with the bat, so when one has a nice career, you tend to over value it. Much like Cano.

Yes, Brian Roberts is oh so comparable to Robinson Cano. Well done!

[atomic]

Yes, he admitted to taking trying PEDs and telling Bigbie about it, rather than calling Bigbie a liar. He was never caught, though, as far as I know. Nor has anyone ever claimed to have witnessed him doing so.

Usually, when someone is caught with his hand in the cookie jar and claims that it is the first time that he has ever misbehaved, we naturally tend to disbelieve him. In this case, however, there is a ring of truth to it, since the mention in the Mitchell report was simply that Bigbie related a previous conversation in which he recalled that Roberts had once told him that he had tried PEDs a couple of times. As I recall, Roberts was never caught, Bigbie never claimed to have seen him taking PEDs, and the one conversation (heresay) was the sole "evidence" cited about Roberts in the Mitchell report. Or am I "mis-remembering"?

Yeah I think the general response to this is "I never did it before and I will never do it again". And both of those of course lies. I am pretty sure if he did it once he did it a 1000 times. I can't imagine someone more likely to have been on steroids for their career. Anyway I am sure pretty much the whole team was on steroids back then. This reminds me of people arguing that Lance Armstrong wasn't doping. Roberts was obviously on steroids and he even admitted as much. I don't even know why anyone would argue he wasn't a steroid abuser.

Tiny guy admits to using steroids. Had huge numbers that weren't expected from a guy his size. What more could you possibly want? If he was on the Yankees you would have no problem condemning him.

[atomic]

That's a pretty harsh form of self-discipline, don'tcha think?

Maybe he had a urine test coming up.

[jamesenoch]

You said "one of the best, if not the best". If you want to make a statement of that sort then I can use stuff like GG/SS/MVPS to show that he was not regarded as "one of the best, if not the best" by those following baseball. You set the standard so high that I don't even have to bother to look up stuff like accumulated WAR to disprove it.

Now as to your points.

MVP- Dude, I set the bar at TOP TWENTY. That isn't a high bar for the best at his position.

All Star- How hard should it be for "one of the best, if not the best" second baseman in the game to get the pity selection the O's received? And yet Roberts only managed it once. (We can all agree he was worthy the other time).

GG- Yet again, "one of the best, if not the best" is going to get rewarded like Palmeiro was, like Jeter was. That isn't the case for Roberts.

In all the awards that reward both performance and perception Roberts has not ever been considered "one of the best, if not the best".

He had a nice little career. If his name ever finds itself on the ballot for the HoF he will drop off after the first year.

Now if you want to do it the other way...lets look at 2004-2009 as Roberts "peak".

2004- 15th in WAR for 2nd

2005- 2nd

2006- 11th

2007- 8th

2008- 6th

2009- 9th

Like I said, a nice career. But if you only crack the top 5 in WAR for your position once over your peak, I don't consider you "one of the best, if not the best".

I am curious on where you are getting Robert's WAR Rankings? Here is the information I gathered from Fangraphs :

2004 - 12th with 2.3

2005 - 2nd with 6.6

2006 - 4th with 3.1

2007 - 4th with 4.8

2008 - 4th with 4.7

2009 - 8th with 3.4

2004 to 2009 - 2nd, behind Utley, with 24.9

Is there another website that I should go to?

[Number5]

Yeah I think the general response to this is "I never did it before and I will never do it again". And both of those of course lies. I am pretty sure if he did it once he did it a 1000 times. I can't imagine someone more likely to have been on steroids for their career. Anyway I am sure pretty much the whole team was on steroids back then. This reminds me of people arguing that Lance Armstrong wasn't doping. Roberts was obviously on steroids and he even admitted as much. I don't even know why anyone would argue he wasn't a steroid abuser.

Tiny guy admits to using steroids. Had huge numbers that weren't expected from a guy his size. What more could you possibly want? If he was on the Yankees you would have no problem condemning him.

Again, you bolded a sentence from my post, then proceeded to write something totally and completely unrelated to it. Roberts was never caught using steroids, or any other PED. You keep saying he was. Please provide a link and/or documentation to support your claim. Everything, including the Mitchell report says otherwise.

If, as you claim, Roberts was lying about steroid use, that would mean that he never did, since the one and only shred of "evidence" remains heresay from Bigbie regarding something that Roberts once told him. I certainly have no reason to think that Roberts would tell Bigbie that he had tried steroids a couple of times unless he had actually done so and, likewise, we have no reason -none- to think he would tell Bigbie that out of the blue if, in fact, he was a heavy user. Your repeated accusations have zero basis in fact, and very little in common sense.

As to size, Willie Mays was 1 inch taller and 5 pounds lighter than Brian Roberts. Was he on steroids?