Yanks get Tanaka 7y/$155M

[Guest]

At some point, this team has to be willing to take some risks. They owe it to their fan base which may erode after a promising season two years ago

I am frustrated as a fan and as an observer of this team.The National league champion Cardinals have virtually the same financial situation as the

Orioles...about the same TV deal, maybe even less than the Orioles. Yet the Cardinals make their team better and better every year with shrewd

signings and compete with solid young players who will re-sign with them because of the way they run their organization. The Orioles do none of the above but shed salary and try to hit on bargain basement deals. The Orioles are not bargaining. They might be IN the basement.

[rjslomo]

I tend to agree with this. These signings have made them competitive again, assuming all can stay on the field. But I do not see the 100+ win monster that dominated the late 90s and early 2000s. Baseball is becoming a young mans game again post steroid era and signing guys significantly into their 30's has not been a good investment for some time. And I'm not naive to the fact that guys are probably using some substance or another to get an edge. But those substances sure don't seem to be having the impact of good ole Testosterone.

You make a good point about becoming a young man's game again. As someone who is 41, it hurts when you hear about guys 32/33/34 being old. We're not that far removed from seeing a large number of players performing very well in their mid-30s and maybe a lot of that was due to PEDs? Who knows but there are a lot of owners & GMs that were getting used to players falling off that cliff at maybe 35/36/37 when now it may be more like 32/33? They haven't been burned by a huge number of big contracts for these players. Maybe, if the game is relatively clean now, we'll see players fall off that cliff at an earlier age in the next five years or so and the era of 5+ year contracts for guys in their early 30s (ala Brian Roberts deal) will really start to shrink?

[bpilktree]

Even with the Yanks making there moves i would say that we stil have a better offense and a much better defense then them. If we would add a top shelf starter i think we may still have a better team. Position breakdown and which team has the advantage at each position

C Wieters vs Mccann slight edge McCann but Wieters has played better then him the previous years. Advantage Yanks

1B Davis vs Tex. Easy chose in Davis. Orioles

2B Flaherty vs Roberts/Johnson Flaherty plays much better defense and has shown some promise with the bat the second half of the season Orioles

SS Hardy vs Jeter. Jeter is getting much older and injured and has no range before the ankle issues. Hardy is steady with the glove and has power. Orioles

3B Manny vs. Nunez. I don't think we need any write up Orioles

LF. Lough vs Gardner. Lough is a decent defender but Gardner is a solid player. Yanks

CF Jones vs Ellsbury. They both are top tier outfielders Jones more power while Ellsbury has speed and OBP but major health concerns. Orioles

RF. Markakis vs. Beltran. Markakis had a decline each of the last few years and Beltran still consistant with power. Yanks

DH. Young vs Soriano. Soriano is a proven player may have a slight dip because he does not like DHing. Yanks

So looking at the position breakdown the Orioles have a 5-4 advantage. I also think the positions we have advantages in our much bigger then theirs.

Right now the Yanks have the advantge in rotation. However if we add Jimmenez or Garza it would tighten it up. I believe Tilman is the best starter on either team.

[Guest]

Even with the Yanks making there moves i would say that we stil have a better offense and a much better defense then them. If we would add a top shelf starter i think we may still have a better team. Position breakdown and which team has the advantage at each position

C Wieters vs Mccann slight edge McCann but Wieters has played better then him the previous years. Advantage Yanks

1B Davis vs Tex. Easy chose in Davis. Orioles

2B Flaherty vs Roberts/Johnson Flaherty plays much better defense and has shown some promise with the bat the second half of the season Orioles

SS Hardy vs Jeter. Jeter is getting much older and injured and has no range before the ankle issues. Hardy is steady with the glove and has power. Orioles

3B Manny vs. Nunez. I don't think we need any write up Orioles

LF. Lough vs Gardner. Lough is a decent defender but Gardner is a solid player. Yanks

CF Jones vs Ellsbury. They both are top tier outfielders Jones more power while Ellsbury has speed and OBP but major health concerns. Orioles

RF. Markakis vs. Beltran. Markakis had a decline each of the last few years and Beltran still consistant with power. Yanks

DH. Young vs Soriano. Soriano is a proven player may have a slight dip because he does not like DHing. Yanks

So looking at the position breakdown the Orioles have a 5-4 advantage. I also think the positions we have advantages in our much bigger then theirs.

Right now the Yanks have the advantge in rotation. However if we add Jimmenez or Garza it would tighten it up. I believe Tilman is the best starter on either team.

Why even get your hopes up?

[SilentJames]

At some point, this team has to be willing to take some risks. They owe it to their fan base which may erode after a promising season two years ago

I am frustrated as a fan and as an observer of this team.The National league champion Cardinals have virtually the same financial situation as the

Orioles...about the same TV deal, maybe even less than the Orioles. Yet the Cardinals make their team better and better every year with shrewd

signings and compete with solid young players who will re-sign with them because of the way they run their organization. The Orioles do none of the above but shed salary and try to hit on bargain basement deals. The Orioles are not bargaining. They might be IN the basement.

What is the difference between shrewd and bargain basement? If Lough becomes an everyday upgrade over McLouth will that be a shrewd move by your standards? Was Gonzo a shrewd move? Hell I thought getting Davis and Hunter for Koji was a pretty shrewd move?

As for signing their young players: Didn't they lock up Jones? and Markakis? and Hardy? They just gave Davis a huge raise, that sounds like a prelude to locking him up.

You are right, the Orioles are not utilizing the totality of their resources. Everyone agrees with that, but using their lack of getting Tanaka as an example of that is pretty shortsighted and incorrect.

[epic]

They could have given Tanaka that contract, but would that have been a smart thing for them to do? Look at Seattle and Cano.

Even if the Orioles could give Tanaka that money, and offered him the exact same contract the Yankees could offer him 10% more. That is the difference between the Orioles and the Yankees.

Sure the Orioles are likely not utilizing enough of their resources, I don't think anyone can argue that, but what makes the Yankees so impossible is that they seem to literally have as close to unlimited funds as possible. They, and now the Dodgers, have the ability to outbid virtually every other team on whim. They have the ability to absorb so much more risk than say the Chicago White Sox, or the Indians, or the Rays, or the Orioles.

Tanaka could be a bust. He could never live up to the hype. The Yanks can take that risk, the Orioles can not.

That is just math.

As an elite free agent who is 25 years old, I would be willing to go $20M+/yr for him. Sure, he'll have an adjustment period coming over to the US but the guy looks good and still hasn't hit his prime yet. The only thing I would worry about is the mileage already on his arm. He's thrown a lot of innings in Japan at a very young age.

All free agents have risk but in your comparison with Cano, Seattle is mainly paying for what Cano has already done and hoping he can replicate that performance for about 5 years or so and anything else will be gravy. With Tanaka, you're getting his age 25 season through his age 31 season. Those are the years I would be most willing to give 20 million a year for knowing that they will likely be the best of his career.

Like what Roy said, you have to take risks sometimes if you want to be on top. At some point I believe the Orioles need to take a risk if they truly want to compete for a World Series. Tanaka was a great opportunity for the team to add a TOR pitcher entering his prime. It's a big risk but exactly the type of one we should be making right now IMO. It's unfortunate we didn't even attempt but I can't say I'm surprised.

[Orioles4Life21]

The Yankees will win 85 or so games. With a little luck they could sneak into the playoffs. They're are marginally better than us MAYBE.

[spiritof66]

I am not sure what is being argued about here. Does anyone disagree with any of these statements?

1. The operations of the Yankees and Dodgers (and the Red Sox and others, to a lesser degree) produce much more money, giving them much more to spend on player payroll, principally because they have larger and wealthier populations in their metro areas/TV markets.

2. Based on the available information, it appears that some teams set their player payrolls so that their total costs approximate their revenues, giving them little or no operating income.

3. Based on the available information, it appears that the Orioles limit their player payroll in a way that gives them a very high profit margin (operating income as a percentage to revenues) relative to other MLB teams. That limit for next year appears to be around $90 to $105 mm. If the Orioles' payroll relative to total revenues (including those from MASN) were at the average for MLB teams, it would increase by something like $15to $30 mm. (We don't have enough information to make a precise estimate.)

4. Whether the Orioles limit their payroll for next year to $90 mm or $130 mm, or something in between, it would have been a bad idea, and almost certainly futile, for them to pursue Tanaka.

Most if not all of us are frustrated by, and some us are at a loss to understand, #3. I take a back seat to very few in my disgust at the Orioles' ownership, and have been consistent in that sentiment since the 1990s. But #3 appears to be a fact of life. Can we move on and talk about ways to improve the pitching staff, and the rest of the team, in light of circumstances that aren't going to change between now and April?

[Orioles4Life21]

I really need to triple check my posts before I hit send since I can't edit them. I need to renew my plus membership...

[Can_of_corn]

The Yankees will win 85 or so games. With a little luck they could sneak into the playoffs. They're are marginally better than us MAYBE.

That is pretty much where I was before the Tanaka signing. Adding a solid #2 (a reasonable expectation for Tanaka) puts them clearly ahead of the O's and give their playoff chances a significant boost.

[Rene88]

At some point, this team has to be willing to take some risks. They owe it to their fan base which may erode after a promising season two years ago

I am frustrated as a fan and as an observer of this team.The National league champion Cardinals have virtually the same financial situation as the

Orioles...about the same TV deal, maybe even less than the Orioles. Yet the Cardinals make their team better and better every year with shrewd

signings and compete with solid young players who will re-sign with them because of the way they run their organization. The Orioles do none of the above but shed salary and try to hit on bargain basement deals. The Orioles are not bargaining. They might be IN the basement.

Yep. But many keep drinking the kool aid....whatever floats your boat though. As long as the kool aid wasn't made in Guyana you should be fine.

[Orioles4Life21]

That is pretty much where I was before the Tanaka signing. Adding a solid #2 (a reasonable expectation for Tanaka) puts them clearly ahead of the O's and give their playoff chances a significant boost.

I still think there's a good chance that we're a better team, especially if we are going to add a good starter before spring training.

[Can_of_corn]

I still think there's a good chance that we're a better team, especially if we are going to add a good starter before spring training.

I agree there is a chance, there is a lot of age on that roster. As for adding a pitcher, we are talking about the now not what may be.

[Guest]

I still think there's a good chance that we're a better team, especially if we are going to add a good starter before spring training.

Yanks got better this off-season. What were the O's problems last year DH SP OBP what have they done to fix this? Nothing

[SilentJames]

Here is the thing about drinking the kool aid comments:

We are talking about sports. Not politics, not government, not economics, or jobs, or family.

Sports.

We all "drink the kool aid." Why would anyone waste time in their lives following something that gives them nothing but bother? If you genuinely believe the Orioles are going to be terrible, if all you do is complain about them, why are you wasting your time with them?