J Upton...(Traded to SD)

[Guest]

And unfortunately we kept on trading our solid minor leaguers for rentals at the trade deadline. But I guess everything Duquette does can't be perfect.

Dan is doing a great job with what he has to work with.

[MurphDogg]

O's farm system has about 2 -4 good players. Kinda sad when you think about picking high in all those drafts and get nothing.

That makes zero sense. The two best players in the farm system ARE 2 of the 3 most recent first round picks, while the third looks for all the world like a successful Major Leaguer. And their fourth most recent first round draft pick is already a successful Major Leaguer. Your complaints should be with international signings or finding talent later in the draft. Their early draft picks have been great the last 5 years.

[xian4]

The system is mid-range. And that's in part because they have several young players producing in the majors, like Machado and Gausman, and hopefully Schoop.

Quite right, wish I could rep you

[wildbillhiccup]

I'd almost be willing to bet that SD's outfield last year' date=' was better in terms of both production and dollar value.[/quote']

I swear, each on of your comments is more outlandish than the next. It's getting harder and harder to place any credence in what you say.

[wildbillhiccup]

No' date=' WAR well still tell you the return on your investment, and how good it is. The only real question at that point is did you invest enough? I'd argue that SD invested too much for what doesn't seem like it will be a very big return.[/quote']

WAR is one metric. There are many others that should also be looked at when evaluating a players, including the completely unscientific "eye test".

[Reboulet'sStache]

WAR is one metric. There are many others that should also be looked at when evaluating a players, including the completely unscientific "eye test".

And that's the strawman argument. Nobody says otherwise. Nobody advocates otherwise. WAR is a great stepping stone to help move conversations along and provide a frame for the discussion. That's it. The problem becomes when people who love Nick Markakis' defense, because they "see" how good it is, and then say that WAR is clearly junk because it doesn't confirm my preconceived idea.

[Reboulet'sStache]

I swear, each on of your comments is more outlandish than the next. It's getting harder and harder to place any credence in what you say.

Am I wrong?

[BohKnowsBmore]

Quite right, wish I could rep you

I got it.

[Reboulet'sStache]

O's farm system has about 2 -4 good players. Kinda sad when you think about picking high in all those drafts and get nothing.

And that's partly because they gave up picks to acquire talent in the short term. Hader and a supp for Norris. EdRod for Miller. Pick for Ubaldo. Pick for Cruz.

And your solution is to give up more picks and prospects, and become financially invested in players at the tail end of their careers.

You've basically established this narrative where the O's can't win with you. Sacrifice the things that will allow us to get deeper with young talent, and also complain that we don't have young talent.

[PA724_Oriole]

So if I'm understanding OH right. This thread can now be shutdown due to the fact Upton no longer has a chance of being traded from the Braves to the Os right?

[wildbillhiccup]

And that's the strawman argument. Nobody says otherwise. Nobody advocates otherwise. WAR is a great stepping stone to help move conversations along and provide a frame for the discussion. That's it. The problem becomes when people who love Nick Markakis' defense' date=' because they "see" how good it is, and then say that WAR is clearly junk because it doesn't confirm my preconceived idea.[/quote']

The world isn't black and white my friend, and the same can be said for intepreting statistics. After all, what we're really doing here is trying to predict the future and if there was a proven formula to do that I'd be sitting here with a winnning lottery ticket in my hand. Make your points, state your opinions, but dial back the I'm right and you're wrong attitude a bit. That's all I'm saying. As the saying goes you can catch more flies with honey...

[Malike]

Well IMO Upton Kemp and Myers will kill the numbers put up by the 2013 S.D outfield.

Pretty sure they'll offset it just as much with the horrible defense they'll play. It's great scoring runs, it's not great when 3 of your OF will give them back. Even Upton is a below average defender.

[Can_of_corn]

So if I'm understanding OH right. This thread can now be shutdown due to the fact Upton no longer has a chance of being traded from the Braves to the Os right?

Sure, and the Mods might very well do that.

[PA724_Oriole]

Pretty sure they'll offset it just as much with the horrible defense they'll play. It's great scoring runs, it's not great when 3 of your OF will give them back. Even Upton is a below average defender.

So is Nelson Cruz. But he made plays in the field for us and he produced far more runs than he gave up.

How many WS titles does Manny Ramirez have? Who played in the smallest LF in the majors and was consisted one of the worst fielders ever. I think he showed that you can overcome your defensive flaws if your bat is that good.

Its about team defense when it's added together. One or two bad fielders doesn't make your team bad defensively.

[Reboulet'sStache]

The world isn't black and white my friend, and the same can be said for intepreting statistics. After all, what we're really doing here is trying to predict the future and if there was a proven formula to do that I'd be sitting here with a winnning lottery ticket in my hand. Make your points, state your opinions, but dial back the I'm right and you're wrong attitude a bit. That's all I'm saying. As the saying goes you can catch more flies with honey...

I'm literally not arguing anything, so I'm not sure how I can be taking a, "I'm right, you're wrong" attitude. You are the one that linked some article, like it had some great insight, and then continue to frame the discussion in a way that nobody is arguing. I don't believe WAR is the only thing that can be used. I have never argued such a thing. In fact, I usually argue for surplus value more than I do WAR. So about the only point I've tried to make isn't that you are "wrong," it's that you are wrong in what I am arguing, and I'm not sure why you keep arguing it?

In terms of my posting style, I'm not sure what baby proofed world you live in where what I typed is "real cut throat." I can start adding "imo" or "just my two cents" on the end of everything I type if you would prefer, although I generally hate when people do that. Although that my help to soften the tone a little bit.