Cashner signing

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, cimota said:

Yeah and which would you rather have happen?   FIP is for people who failed at logic. 

No, that would be pitching wins.

The thing is, every FIP detractor I have come across thinks FIP is meant to do something it isn't meant to do.  They all seem to think that folks that look at FIP give it way more credence than actually happens.  I don't know anyone who looks at FIP that sees it as more than one instrument in a tool box full of them.

There is no perfect tool that will give you every answer.  That doesn't mean you should dismiss the imperfect tools that are available.

[Redskins Rick]

Just now, Can_of_corn said:

No, that would be pitching wins.

The thing is, every FIP detractor I have come across thinks FIP is meant to do something it isn't meant to do.  They all seem to think that folks that look at FIP give it way more credence than actually happens.  I don't know anyone who looks at FIP that sees it as more than one instrument in a tool box full of them.

There is no perfect tool that will give you every answer.  That doesn't mean you should dismiss the imperfect tools that are available.

I am not a huge sabematic fan, but I understand their part in the game, and Kudos for a good post, just one instrument in a tool box, is spot on.

[atomic]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

No, that would be pitching wins.

The thing is, every FIP detractor I have come across thinks FIP is meant to do something it isn't meant to do.  They all seem to think that folks that look at FIP give it way more credence than actually happens.  I don't know anyone who looks at FIP that sees it as more than one instrument in a tool box full of them.

There is no perfect tool that will give you every answer.  That doesn't mean you should dismiss the imperfect tools that are available.

Like I have said if FIP was so valuable why don't people quote it for batters?  

[Frobby]

14 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I found what looks to be a detailed breakdown.

 

http://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/article200337564.html

 

Thanks.   So if Cashner has a healthy season and makes 30 starts and throws 160 innings, he’d make an extra $3.4 mm.    He’s almost sure to reach some of his incentives.    

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, cimota said:

Like I have said if FIP was so valuable why don't people quote it for batters?  

Here we go again.

I say it is an imperfect tool and one of many and you immediately follow that with if FIP was so valuable!

Do you get what I am saying?  I say one thing and you, two minutes later, ignore what I say, while quoting me.

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Thanks.   So if Cashner has a healthy season and makes 30 starts and throws 160 innings, he’d make an extra $3.4 mm.    He’s almost sure to reach some of his incentives.    

He's only hit 160 innings three times in eight seasons.  Last year he reached it but just barely (166.2).  His career high for innings in consecutive seasons is 316.2.

[Luke-OH]

17 minutes ago, cimota said:

Yeah and which would you rather have happen?   FIP is for people who failed at logic. 

It's not a question of what you'd rather have happen, it's a question of what is more predictive of future performance (aka better indicator of true talent level). It's just fact that FIP is more predictive than ERA in the population of MLB pitchers. xFIP is even more predictive. It's not perfect, pitchers do have some control over contact quality.

As for FIP for hitters (FIH), I think as xBABIP formulas improve with the inclusion of statcast data, we'll see at least a more conversation in casual baseball about BABIP vs xBAPIP (it's already talked about among analytics-minded folks).

[atomic]

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Here we go again.

I say it is an imperfect tool and one of many and you immediately follow that with if FIP was so valuable!

Do you get what I am saying?  I say one thing and you, two minutes later, ignore what I say, while quoting me.

 

 

OK, but why doesn't anyone quote this imperfect tool for batters?  I think its value is so low it isn't worth mentioning.  

[DrungoHazewood]

16 minutes ago, cimota said:

Yeah and which would you rather have happen?   FIP is for people who failed at logic. 

I'll skip past the insult and say I'd much rather have the 19 straight singles and doubles on ground balls.  We'd lose this game, but would be far better off in the long term.

[atomic]

5 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

It's not a question of what you'd rather have happen, it's a question of what is more predictive of future performance (aka better indicator of true talent level). It's just fact that FIP is more predictive than ERA in the population of MLB pitchers. xFIP is even more predictive. It's not perfect, pitchers do have some control over contact quality.

As for FIP for hitters (FIH), I think as xBABIP formulas improve with the inclusion of statcast data, we'll see at least a more conversation in casual baseball about BABIP vs xBAPIP (it's already talked about among analytics-minded folks).

But those formulas aren't the same as FIP are they?   

[DrungoHazewood]

12 minutes ago, cimota said:

Like I have said if FIP was so valuable why don't people quote it for batters?  

For similar reasons as to why you don't know Eddie Murray's ERA.

Also, batters exercise far more control over the outcomes of their balls in play than do pitchers.

[Luke-OH]

1 minute ago, cimota said:

But those formulas aren't the same as FIP are they?   

Of course not, that would be bad analysis. Hitters control different things than pitchers do. 

[atomic]

1 minute ago, DrungoHazewood said:

For similar reasons as to why you don't know Eddie Murray's ERA.

Also, batters exercise far more control over the outcomes of their balls in play than do pitchers.

LOL.  It isn't ERA. It has nothing to do with ERA.  You could call it FIH if you want. Just do the same calculation on hitters.  Then tell me who is the best. 

[atomic]

2 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

Of course not, that would be bad analysis. Hitters control different things than pitchers do. 

Your argument is not logical.  Pitchers don't control how hard the ball is hit or where it is hit but batters do?  Hilarious.  

[Can_of_corn]

Guys, I'm pretty sure Cimota is just trolling at this point.