WaPo: Spin Rates and Buy In

[weams]

7 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

I’d argue he wasn’t better in Atlanta, he just had a much better defensive, faced inferior lineups, and got some gimme outs vs pitchers. 

I'd argue that they got rid of a whole lot of money they could no longer afford...

[weams]

8 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

Check out the drop from 2016-2017.

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/velo.php?player=605164&time=&startDate=03/30/2007&endDate=01/09/2019&s_type=2

 

Month	Hard	Breaking	Offspeed
3/18	92.52	80.41	85.34
4/18	91.99	80.05	84.21
5/18	92.34	80.43	84.38
6/18	92.11	79.75	84.29
7/18	91.56	79.71	84.51
8/18	92.06	79.94	84.24
9/18	92.06	80.25	83.48

[Luke-OH]

41 minutes ago, weams said:

I'd argue that they got rid of a whole lot of money they could no longer afford...

And you can put a monetary value on the dumping of that salary, which was part of the “return”.

[sportsfan8703]

51 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

And you can put a monetary value on the dumping of that salary, which was part of the “return”.

They took $13 million in salary off our hands in O’day. 

I think DD was just in acquire assets mode at the deadline. The international slot money was just a meaningless throw in. It was so late in the season that we couldn’t even trade it for anything. So it was even less important to Atlanta because we couldn’t trade it to one of their rivals. 

It’s also crazy to think that after watching the videos there are at least 2 guys in the MLB throwing their sinker harder than Britton. It’s a different game. 

[Luke-OH]

Article highlighting three pitchers with high spin breaking balls the Orioles could target.

http://www.orioleshangout.com/2019/01/10/spin-cycle-under-the-radar-free-agent-pitchers/

[interloper]

57 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

Article highlighting three pitchers with high spin breaking balls the Orioles could target.

http://www.orioleshangout.com/2019/01/10/spin-cycle-under-the-radar-free-agent-pitchers/

Great stuff. Have you already talked about current Orioles who feature noteworthy spin rates? I'd be interested in that, just out of curiosity. 

[Luke-OH]

53 minutes ago, interloper said:

Great stuff. Have you already talked about current Orioles who feature noteworthy spin rates? I'd be interested in that, just out of curiosity. 

Tanner Scott and Cody Carroll have above average FB and SL spin.

So does Fry but less so.

Cobb has above avg CB spin. Ortiz too, but he only threw one so it could be a error.

Castro has elite slider spin.

Ramirez, Bundy, Araujo, Givens, and Phillips also have above average FB spin. I'm not sure how much it helps Givens because of the arm slot.

Bleier is an elite low spin guy, low spin correlates with GB.

Bleier and Castro are the only ones with real extreme numbers. 

But no one has the FB spin of Bard or the SL spin of Bard or the CB spin of Espino.

 

 

[Ohfan67]

29 minutes ago, Luke-OH said:

Tanner Scott and Cody Carroll have above average FB and SL spin.

So does Fry but less so.

Cobb has above avg CB spin. Ortiz too, but he only threw one so it could be a error.

Castro has elite slider spin.

Ramirez, Bundy, Araujo, Givens, and Phillips also have above average FB spin. I'm not sure how much it helps Givens because of the arm slot.

Bleier is an elite low spin guy, low spin correlates with GB.

Bleier and Castro are the only ones with real extreme numbers. 

But no one has the FB spin of Bard or the SL spin of Bard or the CB spin of Espino.

 

 

I would think that the majority of "successful" pitchers have above average spin. Do you think that broad statement is correct? 

[Luke-OH]

3 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

I would think that the majority of "successful" pitchers have above average spin. Do you think that broad statement is correct? 

No, not really, the best pitches aren’t always high spin. Spin axis, velocity, arm slot, deception, extension, and command are also factors. As well as how pitches help or hurt the other pitches in a repertoire. Spin does help a 4S fastball miss bats, spin on a breaking ball helps a pitcher’s fastball play up too because it looks like a fastball for longer than a low spin breaker.

Spin rate helps explain things you can’t easily pick up with your eyes. Like how a average velocity straight fastball misses bats in the zone. 

[Bradysburns]

18 hours ago, theocean said:

But, his time to the plate though...

I remember hearing Elias say on 105.7 that he felt sometimes players get drafted for something they do really well and then the development process makes them change that thing they do really well in order to fit within an organizational philosophy. I couldn't agree more - the Orioles have been really bad about trying to make pitchers be something they aren't. So, I'm really optimistic about what Elias & Co can do with Bundy and others.

That does resonate with me viz the Orioles. Over the years, I've heard a ton of stuff like that. I suspect that all teams influence their pitchers in various ways. But here, you'd keep hearing stuff like completely removing Bundy's cutter from his mix for an extended period. That seems pretty disruptive, to totally remove his out pitch, but what do I know? 

It should be interesting to hear more from Elias and company once these guys start working together. For example, Bundy's slider misses a high percentage of bats. I wonder if we'll see more of it this year. 

[LookinUp]

1 hour ago, Luke-OH said:

Bleier is an elite low spin guy, low spin correlates with GB.

 

Glad you noted this. Spin rate matters, but it doesn't always have to be high. I think the point is that, for any given pitch, it has to be different than the average. How much different is hard to say, but more different up or down seems to generate movement beyond what many hitters are used to handling.

[interloper]

2 hours ago, Luke-OH said:

Tanner Scott and Cody Carroll have above average FB and SL spin.

So does Fry but less so.

Cobb has above avg CB spin. Ortiz too, but he only threw one so it could be a error.

Castro has elite slider spin.

Ramirez, Bundy, Araujo, Givens, and Phillips also have above average FB spin. I'm not sure how much it helps Givens because of the arm slot.

Bleier is an elite low spin guy, low spin correlates with GB.

Bleier and Castro are the only ones with real extreme numbers. 

But no one has the FB spin of Bard or the SL spin of Bard or the CB spin of Espino.

 

 

Thanks for the post!

The bolded is a bit of a curiosity to me seeing as he had so much trouble with the heater last season. I would assume that's simply due to poor location/velocity?

[Luke-OH]

4 hours ago, interloper said:

Thanks for the post!

The bolded is a bit of a curiosity to me seeing as he had so much trouble with the heater last season. I would assume that's simply due to poor location/velocity?

Yes, spin isn’t magic, and it works the best when located at the top of the zone. 

[TGO]

Luke, do you think the new regime will try anything different with Tanner Scott or basically just let him keep doing what he's doing and focus more on command and hitting spots? He threw 45% sliders this year, which is a lot, but he used it pretty conventionally (much more when ahead in the account, less when behind). I'm wondering if pitching backwards is something they might try with him.

He has a great fastball, too, so I don't think there's really a wrong answer with him, but he should be a lot of fun to watch.

 

 

[Luke-OH]

1 hour ago, TGO said:

Luke, do you think the new regime will try anything different with Tanner Scott or basically just let him keep doing what he's doing and focus more on command and hitting spots? He threw 45% sliders this year, which is a lot, but he used it pretty conventionally (much more when ahead in the account, less when behind). I'm wondering if pitching backwards is something they might try with him.

He has a great fastball, too, so I don't think there's really a wrong answer with him, but he should be a lot of fun to watch.

 

 

Yeah, he just needs to improve his consistency, no big changes needed, I hope if his command continues to improve he’ll take the governor off to improve he’ll unleash the AA version of his FB.

I know he didn’t have good command in 2018, but if you compare it to his 2016, 2017, he’s come a long way each year.