2018 Implosion

[Bubble Buddy]

Forgive me if I'm a little late here or , but time has clarified my emotional understanding of the implosion that was last year.

Also, if there is a thread that this fits better in, feel free to merge. Just wanted to express my thoughts among fellow Orioles fans. 

I remember feeling like 2014 was our arrival to the beginning of a good stretch of years for us. Maybe even 5-10 years of playoff caliber teams if we stewarded our talent well . We had young pitching on the farm and we had a young-ish MLB team that won the AL East running away

I for one, got caught up in the winning and excused each bad decision as they came. I went with the narrative that we were the winning-est team in the AL over that 5 year stretch. I highlighted the fact that Angelos hired MacPhail and let him rebuild. Then Buck was hired and brought a new energy. And then Duquette who patch worked the improbable 2012 season and the dominant 2014 team. It seemed that Angelos had turned over a new leaf. Or at the very least wasn't getting in the way as much anymore. 

With the benefit of hindsight, it's amazing to hear, see and look back at the level of disorganization. We could probably discuss almost one hundred bad decisions (which I was tempted to do). But it all comes down to one devastating fact. Peter Angelos is Peter Angelos. The King Meddler.

By all means, I hear he is a decent guy and philanthropist. But I think 2018 was the capstone of who he was as a baseball owner when it comes to on the field results. We completely botched that 2014 core of players and young talent. It's almost completely lucky that we even had that run. I was going to list out all the mistakes that were made from 2013 on because there are SO MANY. I know for many of them it's hard to know where PA's meddling ends and Duquette's decisions begin, but Angelos is the one that's been running this clown show for almost 30 years, and it's the same old story. 

What's crazy is, he didn't even pick a direction to go with with that core. We didn't trade them at the right time and we didn't sign the right guys long term.

Jones isn't here long term. Nor Markakis. Nor Machado.

We're left with Chris Davis. And in the end, it's a fitting conclusion to the legacy of Peter Angelos, the baseball owner. 

I do have guarded optimism that it's a new era with the Sons and Elias. But as I've reflected, you spend a lot of time and investment as a fan. And it is sad to see how mismanaged that core team was and how much of a hole we'll be in now. Maybe it was the wake up call needed to finally change things at the top. And I get that viewpoint. But it still pains me a bit to see a good chunk of our former players producing while we are left with Davis and Trumbo. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Tony-OH]

Good post overall, but the good news is the page has turned. Peter Angelos is no longer making the decisions (from all accounts) and Elias was brought in and given control to rebuild the franchise. While its easy to wallow in the past and mistakes, I'd personally rather look towards a future, a future that appears heading in the right direction for the first time in a long time.

[Bubble Buddy]

6 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Good post overall, but the good news is the page has turned. Peter Angelos is no longer making the decisions (from all accounts) and Elias was brought in and given control to rebuild the franchise. While its easy to wallow in the past and mistakes, I'd personally rather look towards a future, a future that appears heading in the right direction for the first time in a long time.

I do agree with this and just included that piece at the end in my edit. 

I just feel like I was duped during the time period into thinking change had happened when it really didn't. And the consequences of that are all my favorite players scattered all over the map and being stuck with poor ol' Chris Davis left tying up payroll and breaking futility records. It's just laughable and sad. 

BUT, there is certainly hope for the future, that we don't have to have our intelligence insulted and our emotions toyed with by incompetent ownership. 

[Philip]

21 minutes ago, Bubble Buddy said:

Forgive me if I'm a little late here or , but time has clarified my emotional understanding of the implosion that was last year.

Also, if there is a thread that this fits better in, feel free to merge. Just wanted to express my thoughts among fellow Orioles fans. 

I remember feeling like 2014 was our arrival to the beginning of a good stretch of years for us. Maybe even 5-10 years of playoff caliber teams if we stewarded our talent well . We had young pitching on the farm and we had a young-ish MLB team that won the AL East running away

I for one, got caught up in the winning and excused each bad decision as they came. I went with the narrative that we were the winning-est team in the AL over that 5 year stretch. I highlighted the fact that Angelos hired MacPhail and let him rebuild. Then Buck was hired and brought a new energy. And then Duquette who patch worked the improbable 2012 season and the dominant 2014 team. It seemed that Angelos had turned over a new leaf. Or at the very least wasn't getting in the way as much anymore. 

With the benefit of hindsight, it's amazing to hear, see and look back at the level of disorganization. We could probably discuss almost one hundred bad decisions (which I was tempted to do). But it all comes down to one devastating fact. Peter Angelos is Peter Angelos. The King Meddler.

By all means, I hear he is a decent guy and philanthropist. But I think 2018 was the capstone of who he was as a baseball owner when it comes to on the field results. We completely botched that 2014 core of players and young talent. It's almost completely lucky that we even had that run. I was going to list out all the mistakes that were made from 2013 on because there are SO MANY. I know for many of them it's hard to know where PA's meddling ends and Duquette's decisions begin, but Angelos is the one that's been running this clown show for almost 30 years, and it's the same old story. 

What's crazy is, he didn't even pick a direction to go with with that core. We didn't trade them at the right time and we didn't sign the right guys long term.

Jones isn't here long term. Nor Markakis. Nor Machado.

We're left with Chris Davis. And in the end, it's a fitting conclusion to the legacy of Peter Angelos, the baseball owner. 

I do have guarded optimism that it's a new era with the Sons and Elias. But as I've reflected, you spend a lot of time and investment as a fan. And it is sad to see how mismanaged that core team was and how much of a hole we'll be in now. Maybe it was the wake up call needed to finally change things at the top. And I get that viewpoint. But it still pains me a bit to see a good chunk of our former players producing while we are left with Davis and Trumbo. 

 

 

 

 

 

Dan showed up and instantly started making the team weaker. He made some successful moves, but most of his major moves were drastic easily forseen failures with long-term negative consequences. His basic approach of doing nothing until January also limited his ability to make any positive moves.

He is well away, and unemployed, and let’s turn to the future.

[Bubble Buddy]

7 minutes ago, Philip said:

Dan showed up and instantly started making the team weaker. He made some successful moves, but most of his major moves were drastic easily forseen failures with long-term negative consequences. His basic approach of doing nothing until January also limited his ability to make any positive moves.

He is well away, and unemployed, and let’s turn to the future.

I'm turning to the future, but I also like to reflect on the past while moving forward. Sometimes it hits you in waves over time. Not all at once. 

I invested 10 years of time and energy into that rebuild. As soon as Tejada was traded I was all in. And it was the first team like that for me because I was too young to follow it as hard in the 90's. 

So realizing more and more the level of mismanagement of my first O's rebuild stings a little, even as I am excited about the new direction and the new rebuild. 

 

 

[Going Underground]

4 minutes ago, Philip said:

Dan showed up and instantly started making the team weaker. He made some successful moves, but most of his major moves were drastic easily forseen failures with long-term negative consequences. His basic approach of doing nothing until January also limited his ability to make any positive moves.

He is well away, and unemployed, and let’s turn to the future.

Not sure about that. i know I didn't agree with things Dan did over the years. Angelos clan was the one who wanted Davis signed to all those years. Ownership who did not spend money on scouting ,analytics and international signings. Also think nothing would have changed but the Orioles had one of the worst seasons in major league history. The wake up call was too overwhelming to ignore. There was a reason why many turned down the Oriole GM job and hired a guy out of baseball for many years.

[Philip]

1 minute ago, Bubble Buddy said:

I'm turning to the future, but I also like to reflect on the past while moving forward. Sometimes it hits you in waves over time. Not all at once. 

I invested 10 years of time and energy into that rebuild. As soon as Tejada was traded I was all in. And it was the first team like that for me because I was too young to follow it as hard in the 90's. 

So realizing more and more the level of mismanagement of my first O's rebuild stings a little, even as I am excited about the new direction and the new rebuild. 

 

 

I understand completely, and it is difficult to just move on and ignore the past(except as it affects the present, and we can learn from it)but it’s best to do that.

[Aglets]

11 minutes ago, Philip said:

Dan showed up and instantly started making the team weaker. He made some successful moves, but most of his major moves were drastic easily forseen failures with long-term negative consequences. His basic approach of doing nothing until January also limited his ability to make any positive moves.

He is well away, and unemployed, and let’s turn to the future.

"instantly started making the team weaker" is a funny/strange way to spin 'instantly making the playoffs' and making two more playoff births, including one 96 win season.

It wasn't all sunshine and rainbows but we'd be extremely negligent to focus only on the downsides.

[Philip]

1 minute ago, Going Underground said:

Not sure about that. i know I didn't agree with things Dan did over the years. Angelos clan was the one who wanted Davis signed to all those years. Ownership who did not spend money on scouting ,analytics and international signings. Also think nothing would have changed but the Orioles had one of the worst seasons in major league history. The wake up call was too overwhelming to ignore. There was a reason why many turned down the Oriole GM job and hired a guy out of baseball for many years.

Yes that’s all true, but Dan traded for Parra, Dan traded away draft picks to save insignificant money, Dan signed Jiminez and Gallardo while ignoring many better choices, waited til January to do anything at all, and so on and so on. I’ve said it many times and don’t want to again, but Dan doesn’t get a pass.

two years ago, Grant Brisbee had a terrific article about the Royals and Orioles and the paths they took after meeting in the ‘14 ALCS. He listed almost every transaction made by the two teams. Very little is as illustrative of Dan’s bad moves.

[Philip]

4 minutes ago, Aglets said:

"instantly started making the team weaker" is a funny/strange way to spin 'instantly making the playoffs' and making two more playoff births, including one 96 win season.

It wasn't all sunshine and rainbows but we'd be extremely negligent to focus only on the downsides.

You can instantly start making the team weaker without affecting current play. I say every single time the subject comes up that Dan made some good moves, and a few gambles that paid off, and I give him a pass for the Davis contract and the international sotuation. But his negatives outweigh the positives, and the effects of the weakening moves have been visible for two seasons now.

[Enjoy Terror]

I remember quite clearly thinking how great of an upgrade Trembley was to Perlozzo. Showalter really made me understand how ineffectual Trembley was. Now, nothing surprises me anymore.

[milbest77]

In my opinion, I think this whole situation is rather simple. Peter had full trust in Buck and had zero trust in Dan after 2014. Buck’s loyalty gave him full autonomy (along with supposedly Brady) after 2014. Buck’s loyalty led to Davis, Trumbo, post-2016 Tillman, etc. Dan was basically tasked with filling in any “holes” in the roster in order to make a playoff run. 

One question I would pose is who in the world was responsible for letting Nelly Cruz get away? 

[mdbdotcom]

IMHO, the implosion took place in 2017 (75-87)

2018 was a year of complete delusion, when someone at the top was convinced that we could compete if we brought in a few journeyman pitchers. But Tillman's and Davis's declines were already in motion.

It was clear that the rebuild should have begun during or after 2016. And when Buck brought in Ubaldo instead of Britton in the wildcard game, his time was up.

[atomic]

15 minutes ago, Philip said:

Yes that’s all true, but Dan traded for Parra, Dan traded away draft picks to save insignificant money, Dan signed Jiminez and Gallardo while ignoring many better choices, waited til January to do anything at all, and so on and so on. I’ve said it many times and don’t want to again, but Dan doesn’t get a pass.

two years ago, Grant Brisbee had a terrific article about the Royals and Orioles and the paths they took after meeting in the ‘14 ALCS. He listed almost every transaction made by the two teams. Very little is as illustrative of Dan’s bad moves.

Unless someone writes a book we won't know what to blame on DD and what to lay at the feet of Peter, Buck and Brady.  It is all conjecture.  I know when DD was in the running to go to Toronto,  Buck said DD hadn't been making all the moves and it was a team effort between DD, Brady and himself. 

[Bubble Buddy]

16 minutes ago, atomic said:

Unless someone writes a book we won't know what to blame on DD and what to lay at the feet of Peter, Buck and Brady.  It is all conjecture.  I know when DD was in the running to go to Toronto,  Buck said DD hadn't been making all the moves and it was a team effort between DD, Brady and himself. 

At the end of the day, for me, the owner shapes the culture. I remember when it felt like Adam had the ear of PA and I thought that was a good thing. Now that I'm a bit older and wiser, the fact that Jones, Buck, Brady and the GM all had PA's ear in different ways just shows terrible leadership and disorganization. Especially when PA's track record of making final baseball decisions is abysmal.