2018 Implosion

[Bubble Buddy]

17 minutes ago, mdbdotcom said:

IMHO, the implosion took place in 2017 (75-87)

2018 was a year of complete delusion, when someone at the top was convinced that we could compete if we brought in a few journeyman pitchers. But Tillman's and Davis's declines were already in motion.

It was clear that the rebuild should have begun during or after 2016. And when Buck brought in Ubaldo instead of Britton in the wildcard game, his time was up.

2018 was a complete joke. I still thought we could bounce back like we had in the even numbered years (2012, 14, 16). But all the decisions and non decisions heading into that year were ridiculous. Having so many key people (players, coaches, GM) in the last year of their contracts and pretending like we were gonna be able to make a run at it. One I laugh at is filling out the roster with a Colby Rasmus who quit on his team midseason 2017 when Jon Jay was out there... Just so inept. 

[atomic]

If the Orioles gave Fowler his opt-out we could have won the division in 2016.  Then get a comp pick when he left.  The Fowler non-signing was pretty ridiculous as well.  I am not sure who was responsible for leaking it to the press. 

[sportsfan8703]

2012 doesn’t happen without Hammel, Lindstrom, Hardy, Miggy, Ayala and McLouth. All DD moves. 

The team got in trouble when AJ and Buck started being GM. Re-signing Davis, Trumbo, and O’day. 

DD was willing to let Markakis, MW, Chen, Trumbo, Davis, Miller, O’day, and Cruz walk. 

We will never know the real answer because DD never at any one time had more than 50% control of the org. 

[MDtransplant757]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

Good post overall, but the good news is the page has turned. Peter Angelos is no longer making the decisions (from all accounts) and Elias was brought in and given control to rebuild the franchise. While its easy to wallow in the past and mistakes, I'd personally rather look towards a future, a future that appears heading in the right direction for the first time in a long time.

Without the disaster that was last season, I don't think that happens. So bad gives way to good. 

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

8 minutes ago, MDtransplant757 said:

Without the disaster that was last season, I don't think that happens. So bad gives way to good. 

If the Orioles won 74 games, they could have added a few players and claim that would be enough to get to the playoffs.

There is no covering up of a 47 win team. The organization is rebooting and bringing about a much needed culture change.

[theocean]

59 minutes ago, Philip said:

Dan showed up and instantly started making the team weaker. He made some successful moves, but most of his major moves were drastic easily forseen failures with long-term negative consequences. His basic approach of doing nothing until January also limited his ability to make any positive moves.

He is well away, and unemployed, and let’s turn to the future.

"instantly made the team weaker"? They had their only winning seasons and playoff appearances under his watch.

He added Wei-Yin Chen, Miguel Gonzalez, Jason Hammel, Nelson Cruz, Steve Pearce, Bud Norris. He added a ton of smaller parts that contributed. They almost made the World Series, the Royals just were playing out of their minds.

DD did a lot with one and sometimes two hands behind his back.

[Bubble Buddy]

8 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

If the Orioles won 74 games, they could have added a few players and claim that would be enough to get to the playoffs.

There is no covering up of a 47 win team. The organization is rebooting and bringing about a much needed culture change.

Agree with these points. The mismanagement was impossible to cover over at 47 wins and produced much needed change.

Yet, the mismanagement and it's other effects still irks me. There are certain player casualties in all this. The window could have been longer, or stewarded much better. Markakis, Jones or Manny could have been prioritized over Davis, etc. Even Buck himself. I Fing loved Buck at the peak. A strong organization maybe tells Buck to do his job and let the GM do his. 

I understand all of this is the past and IMO a result of Peter Angelos' lack of leadership and we don't have to deal with that anymore. I just don't like that "my" Orioles team crashed and burned, when maybe it didn't have to be that way. 

I know, I know, on to the next rebuild and the new era. Trying to embrace both feels. The shiny new era with the one that just crashed and burned that I invested a lot in. 

[AnythingO's]

57 minutes ago, Philip said:

Yes that’s all true, but Dan traded for Parra, Dan traded away draft picks to save insignificant money, Dan signed Jiminez and Gallardo while ignoring many better choices, waited til January to do anything at all, and so on and so on. I’ve said it many times and don’t want to again, but Dan doesn’t get a pass.

two years ago, Grant Brisbee had a terrific article about the Royals and Orioles and the paths they took after meeting in the ‘14 ALCS. He listed almost every transaction made by the two teams. Very little is as illustrative of Dan’s bad moves.

Also remember that "after meeting in the 14 ALCS" was the Toronto debacle and little good happened after that. Too many cooks.

[MDtransplant757]

11 minutes ago, Bubble Buddy said:

Agree with these points. The mismanagement was impossible to cover over at 47 wins and produced much needed change.

Yet, the mismanagement and it's other effects still irks me. There are certain player casualties in all this. The window could have been longer, or stewarded much better. Markakis, Jones or Manny could have been prioritized over Davis, etc. Even Buck himself. I Fing loved Buck at the peak. A strong organization maybe tells Buck to do his job and let the GM do his. 

I understand all of this is the past and IMO a result of Peter Angelos' lack of leadership and we don't have to deal with that anymore. I just don't like that "my" Orioles team crashed and burned, when maybe it didn't have to be that way. 

I know, I know, on to the next rebuild and the new era. Trying to embrace both feels. The shiny new era with the one that just crashed and burned that I invested a lot in. 

You sound like me, but I came to this conclusion last year around mid may. That and I acknowledge that the drafting hasn't been that great too. 

[Frobby]

First of all, I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed 2012-16.    

But I was never under the illusion that it would last forever.     I was against several trades we made that were designed to benefit the team in the short term but were going to cost us in the long run.   Some of the trades like that which I supported turned out way worse than I expected.    The team blew their chance to lock up Manny at an early stage, then bet on the wrong horse in Davis.    Highly touted pitchers like Bundy, Gausman and Harvey never reached their potential due to injuries, poor development, etc.    When the crash came, it was a lot worse than I expected, but it was definitely going to come.   

But, I’m not going to obsess about it.   2012-16 was fun, and now we’re going to have to spend a few years digging out of a hole.    I’ll try to focus on the bright spots while we do that, and hope that Elias’ methods and philosophy will lead to a more sustainable form of success once it arrives.   

[Bubble Buddy]

31 minutes ago, Frobby said:

First of all, I just wanted to say that I really enjoyed 2012-16.    

But I was never under the illusion that it would last forever.     I was against several trades we made that were designed to benefit the team in the short term but were going to cost us in the long run.   Some of the trades like that which I supported turned out way worse than I expected.    The team blew their chance to lock up Manny at an early stage, then bet on the wrong horse in Davis.    Highly touted pitchers like Bundy, Gausman and Harvey never reached their potential due to injuries, poor development, etc.    When the crash came, it was a lot worse than I expected, but it was definitely going to come.   

But, I’m not going to obsess about it.   2012-16 was fun, and now we’re going to have to spend a few years digging out of a hole.    I’ll try to focus on the bright spots while we do that, and hope that Elias’ methods and philosophy will lead to a more sustainable form of success once it arrives.   

I enjoyed 2012-2016 too. And I am thankful for 3 appearances in the playoffs and many fun summers. Ones I hadn't experienced since I was 7, and even then was too young to know what was going on. 

I think I did buy in a little more because my dad always talked about "the Oriole Way" of 1966-1983 and I was a bit more naive to believe that maybe some version of that was possible. Most of my Orioles fanhood consisted of being a lovable loser until 2012. And then I hoped for what I had always heard about when we started to have success. And heck, even the Oriole Way was talked about during the run, that we wanted to develop pitchers, restore the glory, etc. etc.

Needless to say, give me 30 more years of being a fan and I'm sure I'll be a little more guarded and aware. Definitely learning from the end of this era as we head into the next one. 

[Bubble Buddy]

49 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

Also remember that "after meeting in the 14 ALCS" was the Toronto debacle and little good happened after that. Too many cooks.

The Toronto debacle is something I don't think about much. Good point. I remember being pretty worried about that whole situation but of course it was swept under the rug because Duquette was forced to stay. 

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, Philip said:

Dan showed up and instantly started making the team weaker. He made some successful moves, but most of his major moves were drastic easily forseen failures with long-term negative consequences. His basic approach of doing nothing until January also limited his ability to make any positive moves.

He is well away, and unemployed, and let’s turn to the future.

That's all true if you ignore the fact that he took a team that was coming off 14 straight losing seasons and guided them to the best record in the AL East over a five-year period.  It's amazing how a GM could take a team with a 68-win baseline and no farm system and make nothing but "drastic easily forseen failures" and have them win 88 games a year for five years including three postseason appearances.

[Tony-OH]

2 hours ago, Philip said:

Dan showed up and instantly started making the team weaker. He made some successful moves, but most of his major moves were drastic easily forseen failures with long-term negative consequences. His basic approach of doing nothing until January also limited his ability to make any positive moves.

He is well away, and unemployed, and let’s turn to the future.

Completely inaccurate and uninformed, but you are welcome to this wrong opinion.

Duquette was far from perfect, but he had a run here that allowed the team to be very successful over a five year run that included dealing with extremely difficult situations in which he was not always in control. 

While I'm very happy to have Elias here now, I'm not going to use revisionist history to downplay what Duquette was able to accomplish under some very, very difficult work conditions. 

Anyone who does so doesn't understand the whole story and is not looking at what actually was accomplished, only the smoldering wreck that happened in the end.

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, MDtransplant757 said:

Without the disaster that was last season, I don't think that happens. So bad gives way to good. 

Its a valid point that only a total disaster was able to shake the orioles ownership to the core and paved the way for real and needed change in direction and philosophy.