MLB makes new proposal- Union demands start date and terms by Monday

[scOtt]

26 minutes ago, tntoriole said:

Charlie Finley, owner of the As, was the driving force pushing the DH rule change in 1973...But Bowie supported it....

Bill Lee, Red Sox pitcher, said “The DH is the bastard son of Charlie Finley and Bowie Kuhn.” 

A crazy character in his own right. Makes Charley Finely  look conservative! The Spaceman!

[Redskins Rick]

15 hours ago, Frobby said:

And what do you define as being “for the good of the game?”    What would you like to see a commissioner do?   I don’t mean right now (though I’m interested in that), but in general.   

Handle the PEDs issue, step in and moderate a solution between the owners and the players. Dont let a team trade 5 players for a drug abused over the hill pitcher.

Honestly, for the good of the game, is a lot like the movie, Miss Congeniality and each pageant contestant is expect to say "World Peace".

[DrungoHazewood]

15 hours ago, Frobby said:

And what do you define as being “for the good of the game?”    What would you like to see a commissioner do?   I don’t mean right now (though I’m interested in that), but in general.   

1. Move the mound back 3'.
2. Mandate minimum bat sizes.
3. All media revenues over $50M go into a common pot and distributed by inverse of market size.
4. Local streaming of games for all.
5. Home team gets the choice as to whether today's game is played with a DH or not.
6. MLB split up into three or four geographically-aligned leagues with minimal or no interleague play.
7. Expand to 48 teams over the next 18 years.
8. All nine-inning games are called after 2:30.  Large financial bonuses for teams that complete the most full games.
9. The entire balk rule replaced with "you can't stop in the middle of the windup to throw to a base."
10. No more than nine pitchers on a roster (which eliminates the need for the three-batter rule).
11. Teams are limited to 10 minor league transactions in a season, not counting injuries.
12. Eliminate the draft, but institute strict slotting and limits for expenditures on amateur signings based on market size.  The Orioles get to spend $20M, the Yanks $1M.
13. Scrap current free agency/service time rules.  All players become free agents at 28.
14. The shift is legal forever.
15. All new parks have to have a sum of their LF-LC-CF-RC-RF fence distances greater than 1890 feet.  Can be 340-390-430-390-340.  Or 300-425-440-425-300.  Or whatever, as long as it's greater than 300' down the lines and it adds up to >1890.
16. Implement electronic strikezones.
17. Go back to using the balata ball.
18. Every pickoff throw is a ball on the batter unless the runner is actually picked off.

 

[Redskins Rick]

43 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

 

Lets not forget free wifi in all stadiums. LOL

 

[Number5]

19 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

 I'd like someone to name just one thing Bowie Kuhn did that was of long-term benefit to the game of baseball. 

Retire.

[Moose Milligan]

3 hours ago, DrungoHazewood said:

1. Move the mound back 3'.
2. Mandate minimum bat sizes.
3. All media revenues over $50M go into a common pot and distributed by inverse of market size.
4. Local streaming of games for all.
5. Home team gets the choice as to whether today's game is played with a DH or not.
6. MLB split up into three or four geographically-aligned leagues with minimal or no interleague play.
7. Expand to 48 teams over the next 18 years.
8. All nine-inning games are called after 2:30.  Large financial bonuses for teams that complete the most full games.
9. The entire balk rule replaced with "you can't stop in the middle of the windup to throw to a base."
10. No more than nine pitchers on a roster (which eliminates the need for the three-batter rule).
11. Teams are limited to 10 minor league transactions in a season, not counting injuries.
12. Eliminate the draft, but institute strict slotting and limits for expenditures on amateur signings based on market size.  The Orioles get to spend $20M, the Yanks $1M.
13. Scrap current free agency/service time rules.  All players become free agents at 28.
14. The shift is legal forever.
15. All new parks have to have a sum of their LF-LC-CF-RC-RF fence distances greater than 1890 feet.  Can be 340-390-430-390-340.  Or 300-425-440-425-300.  Or whatever, as long as it's greater than 300' down the lines and it adds up to >1890.
16. Implement electronic strikezones.
17. Go back to using the balata ball.
18. Every pickoff throw is a ball on the batter unless the runner is actually picked off.

 

[DrungoHazewood]

23 hours ago, SteveA said:

If you like the DH, it came about during his reign.   Now I was too young then to remember the politics, as to whether he championed it or fought it.   There were actually two separate leagues then with their own CEO/management, and even before the DH I think there were some rules differences (maybe a different balk rule?).   So maybe the DH came about solely from AL leadership and Kuhn had nothing to do with it.

The owners had the reserve clause and the antitrust exemption and they weren't going to give that up without a knockdown drag-out legal and labor fight.   So Kuhn was certainly the right man for the job from their point of view.

Coincidentally, someone asked a question of Bill James about how players went from being so underpaid to being paid extravagant amounts, and the answer had a lot of Bowie Kuhn in it:

 Political power.  Political power within the organization, and poor leadership in baseball.   Marvin Miller was a LOT smarter than Bowie Kuhn.  For a little more than 10 years, there was a labor/management war in which the generals were Marvin Miller and Bowie Kuhn, and Marvin outmaneuvered Bowie (and a couple of his successors) in every skirmish.   

A lot of it stemmed from the owner's ignorance of labor law, and from their refusal to take labor law seriously.  Marvin Miller had worked in labor relations for  many years before coming to baseball, and he had a remarkable command of the ins and outs of labor law.  I don't think Marvin was a lawyer; maybe he was, I don't know.  Anyway, Bowie Kuhn WAS a lawyer, and he was a buffoon.  Baseball owners had never had to deal with a union, and they didn't know anything about labor law and didn't care anything about labor law.  To them, it was just something you kind of had to work around, not something you had to work WITHIN.   

 

There were endless battles; there were constant small battle, not only when contracts were being renegotiated, but all the time.   In every little battle, the owners (led by Bowie) would choose a course of action not entirely consistent with the nuances of labor law, and Marvin would maneuver them into a position in which they were in clear and direct violation of labor law.   Then he would become "standing man", to borrow an image from the brilliant movie, "Bridge of Spies".  He would just stake out his posiition  and not move an inch, knowing that the position taken by Bowie and his Bowites was illegal, thus that they would at some point be ordered by a court to abandon it. 

 

The owners not only didn't KNOW labor law; they refused to take any interest in it.  Marvin would TELL them that their position was in violation of this or that provision of labor law, and they would just blow it off, pay no attention.   They didn't hire an attorney to advise them about labor law until the 1980s, and when they DID consult with an attorney, they would hire somebody who would pat them on the back and assure them that they were going to be OK, somebody who would tell them what they wanted to hear.  

 

 The players won every battle.   It was fun at the time. I was on their side, I was working with them; I sort of understood what was happening.  But it was honestly frustrating that the leadership of baseball was so stupid.   Kuhn was a large man with a kind of commanding presence and a good educational background and great suits, but he just had no nuance, no subtlety.  No understanding of economics.   It was frustrating. 

[atomic]

On 6/3/2020 at 9:36 PM, InsideCoroner said:

I wish I liked other sports the same way I love baseball. But I don’t. November through February are barren months for me as a fan. 

I used to be that way about hockey and then they didn’t play one season. Best not to put all your eggs in one basket.

[InsideCoroner]

29 minutes ago, atomic said:

I used to be that way about hockey and then they didn’t play one season. Best not to put all your eggs in one basket.

That implies I have a choice in the matter. I can watch other sports, and I try, but I only love baseball. 

[weams]

 

[TommyPickles]

Oh boy. 

Pull the trigger.

[TommyPickles]

76 games at 75% prorated pay = 35.2% of original salary

50 games at 100% prorated pay = 30.8% of original salary

According to Ravech this equates to about 200 million more in salary paid this year. They also met the player's demands about the draft pick compensation.

Not saying the owners are the "good guys" but I hope this gets things back on track towards a quick compromise. 

[scOtt]

50 minutes ago, weams said:

 

FINALLY a proposal (from EITHER side) that isn't a hardline make or break position. Something with some compromise. I think a lot of compromise.

[backwardsk]

I like the concept of playoff pool money, especially this year.

[Daddy-O's]

Finally some movement, and the Orioles couldn't lose a hundred games.