The deadline is looming...Is Elias done?

[wildcard]

5 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

The problem is that they've rarely been in a rebuild, they've always been trying to retool with a bad farm system and a middling payroll and almost no international activity.  Rebuild in 1985 was sign Lee Lacy and Fred Lynn so they could celebrate their 36th birthdays on the DL.  Rebuild in 1996 was to ride OPACY sellouts to sign a bunch of 33-year-old free agents for a couple of nice runs followed up by the collapse of one of the oldest teams in MLB history.  Rebuild in 2005 was mostly patching together Millars and Jamie Walkers and Jay Paytons and telling everyone Luis Matos and Daniel Cabrera were the next big things.

They never picked a direction and drove towards it.  It was always we'll draft better next time, and we'll sign Mark Teixeira and Prince Fielder, or we'll tell all the minor leaguers to take the first pitch since Moneyball was all about walking, and the cavalry will be here any day, just as soon as one of them can get through three starts at Norfolk without imploding.  The Orioles were a mess for 30 years because they had no organizational philosophy, they were always behind in advancements, and they were always penny pinching everywhere except MLB payroll, where they did just enough to claim they weren't the Rays or the Marlins.

The team under Mike Elias has a clearer vision of where they want to go and how they're going to get there than any Orioles team since Earl was the manager.

Or since Hank Peters was GM.

[DrungoHazewood]

1 hour ago, hoosiers said:

I am not sure there is a better way to create prospects from scratch on a losing, rebuilding team than to sign a couple, cheap reclamation projects - usually pitchers - and deal them at the trade deadline.  The risk lays only in the ability of the player to perform well enough to be traded for something of value - maybe each of these signings work out a third of the time - perhaps better. 

Otherwise, everything else is cheap.  There also can be secondary benefits if the player is a good mentor to the younger players or a leader on the team.  

Yea, it's a fairly low level risk with little downside.  But it won't work out a lot of the time.

[jerios55]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

Here’s hoping the 6 PTBNL are something to be optimistic about. 

If 2-3 are exciting I'll be happy.  After the Cashner trade, I wonder about 2 guys for Milone.  Some we may need to turn on the binoculars to see the long term value. 

Now it just sucks we have to wait, but at least it will make November more interesting.

[BohKnowsBmore]

26 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Yea, it's a fairly low level risk with little downside.  But it won't work out a lot of the time.

I think the discrepancy here is framing of the strategy:

- "this was how Elias plans to stock the team with talent"

Vs.

- "this is one low risk avenue Elias pursues to potentially create talent from nothing"

[CarrRun49]

5 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

My position in the discussion with Carrun.

It’s a fact that he’s a 2 war player over the last 5 years. 
 

Reaching back further to his rookie and softmore seasons aren’t reflective of who he has been. 
 

only 1 time in his career has he been a .5 player or worse. 
 

If you throw out the .1 and 3.9 he’s still not a 1/2 win player 

I count 4 years.  '13,'14,'15,'17.  Unfortunately picking and choosing what stats you want to count doesn't really help your case.  If you exclude my first three semesters in college, my GPA would have been far greater than a 3.03.  Unfortunately, those three semesters counted when I drank more days than I attended class.  

[weams]

45 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

The problem is that they've rarely been in a rebuild, they've always been trying to retool with a bad farm system and a middling payroll and almost no international activity.  Rebuild in 1985 was sign Lee Lacy and Fred Lynn so they could celebrate their 36th birthdays on the DL.  Rebuild in 1996 was to ride OPACY sellouts to sign a bunch of 33-year-old free agents for a couple of nice runs followed up by the collapse of one of the oldest teams in MLB history.  Rebuild in 2005 was mostly patching together Millars and Jamie Walkers and Jay Paytons and telling everyone Luis Matos and Daniel Cabrera were the next big things.

They never picked a direction and drove towards it.  It was always we'll draft better next time, and we'll sign Mark Teixeira and Prince Fielder, or we'll tell all the minor leaguers to take the first pitch since Moneyball was all about walking, and the cavalry will be here any day, just as soon as one of them can get through three starts at Norfolk without imploding.  The Orioles were a mess for 30 years because they had no organizational philosophy, they were always behind in advancements, and they were always penny pinching everywhere except MLB payroll, where they did just enough to claim they weren't the Rays or the Marlins.

The team under Mike Elias has a clearer vision of where they want to go and how they're going to get there than any Orioles team since Earl was the manager.

Wasn't Bumbry in charge of the minors for far too long?

[wildcard]

4 minutes ago, weams said:

Wasn't Bumbry in charge of the minors for far too long?

When was Bumbry in charge of the minors?

[Roll Tide]

1 hour ago, DrungoHazewood said:

Problem is that Villar was bringing tens of fans to the stadium every day, he cost $millions and his contract expired long before the team could plausibly be relevant.  The only effective way to increase customer interest and revenue is to build an organization that wins consistently. 

We pay how many dollars a month for MASN to watch the Orioles regardless of how many fans go to the stadium. The shitty attendance is because of the s***** product. You make the problem worse the attendance will get worse. And neither is by mismanagement, poor player development, bad trades, and stupid decisions

[CarrRun49]

3 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

We pay how many dollars a month for MASN to watch the Orioles regardless of how many fans go to the stadium. The shitty attendance is because of the s***** product. You make the problem worse the attendance will get worse. And neither is by mismanagement, poor player development, bad trades, and stupid decisions

$13

[Roll Tide]

30 minutes ago, CarrRun49 said:

I count 4 years.  '13,'14,'15,'17.  Unfortunately picking and choosing what stats you want to count doesn't really help your case.  If you exclude my first three semesters in college, my GPA would have been far greater than a 3.03.  Unfortunately, those three semesters counted when I drank more days than I attended class.  

Why would you go back to his rookie and sophomore years to gauge what the player is now?

Even then he was worth more in 2014, .7 and  2015, .9 than the half win player claim that you made and In 13-15 he was only a part time player.

 

[DrungoHazewood]

41 minutes ago, weams said:

Wasn't Bumbry in charge of the minors for far too long?

 

36 minutes ago, wildcard said:

When was Bumbry in charge of the minors?

Yea, I don't remember that either. 

[DrungoHazewood]

29 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

We pay how many dollars a month for MASN to watch the Orioles regardless of how many fans go to the stadium. The shitty attendance is because of the s***** product. You make the problem worse the attendance will get worse. And neither is by mismanagement, poor player development, bad trades, and stupid decisions

We're 20 months into at least a 3-4 year project.  The wins will come. 

[weams]

45 minutes ago, weams said:

Wasn't Bumbry in charge of the minors for far too long?

It was Don Buford. 

[weams]

6 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

 

Yea, I don't remember that either. 

Because I was mistaken.

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:

We're 20 months into at least a 3-4 year project.  The wins will come. 

Of course it might end up being 70 a year.