Elias answers some questions.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

Here is his MLB.com card from 2017

He has pretty average stuff!

There is zero about this that is relevant almost 4 years later.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

He's a 4 pitch guy with average-slighty above average stuff

His CU has been one of the best swing and miss pitches in all of baseball the last few years, especially in 2019.  He has added velocity to his fastball.  He has excellent command and control.  
 

Your scouting report of him is wrong and outdated. 
 

Now, if his FB velocity doesn’t stick, that will change things but based on what we saw in 2020, this is just wrong.

[Roll Tide]

14 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

His CU has been one of the best swing and miss pitches in all of baseball the last few years, especially in 2019.  He has added velocity to his fastball.  He has excellent command and control.  
 

Your scouting report of him is wrong and outdated. 
 

Now, if his FB velocity doesn’t stick, that will change things but based on what we saw in 2020, this is just wrong.

It’s obviously not mine 

[Can_of_corn]

1 hour ago, Roll Tide said:

Better defensive players that sport higher OBP numbers

How would you go about acquiring such players?  From what I've heard other teams also like good defense and high OBP.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

It’s obviously not mine 

Why would you be going off of something  that is 4 years old?

You are obviously giving it a lot of credence with your proclamations that is his stuff is average-ish

[Moose Milligan]

I think Means needs to develop a quality third pitch. The fastball is alright, the changeup is pretty outstanding.  

I think he needs a better curveball that can keep batters honest.  Doesn't need to be as good as his changeup but it needs to be good enough that batters have to respect it.  Right now, I'm not sure it's that good.  But I think he's got a good feel for pitching, I think it can be improved upon...his curveball usage jumped from 6 percent to 12 percent between 2019 and 2020 while his slider usage went down.  I'd be in favor of him scrapping one or the other to make a legit third offering.  

 

 

 

[Sports Guy]

26 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

I think Means needs to develop a quality third pitch. The fastball is alright, the changeup is pretty outstanding.  

I think he needs a better curveball that can keep batters honest.  Doesn't need to be as good as his changeup but it needs to be good enough that batters have to respect it.  Right now, I'm not sure it's that good.  But I think he's got a good feel for pitching, I think it can be improved upon...his curveball usage jumped from 6 percent to 12 percent between 2019 and 2020 while his slider usage went down.  I'd be in favor of him scrapping one or the other to make a legit third offering.  

 

 

 

I think this is very fair.  The CB is what the organization now likes, so I would assume that’s where they will try to get him to get better.  
 

I think the fastball is better than you say, again, if the velocity stays.

[Frobby]

1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:

I think this is very fair.  The CB is what the organization now likes, so I would assume that’s where they will try to get him to get better.  
 

I think the fastball is better than you say, again, if the velocity stays.

I thought his curve was way better this year than last year.   Especially at the end of the season.  

[Sports Guy]

14 minutes ago, Frobby said:

I thought his curve was way better this year than last year.   Especially at the end of the season.  

I don’t disagree..but I think it’s fair to want to see him show both that improvement and the FB velocity over a full season.

[Sports Guy]

FTR, I was waiting for a big collapse by Means in the second half of 2019. He impressed me more with how he finished that year than how he started it.  That, combined with his increased velocity has me excited for him going forward...something I can’t say was the case heading into 2019.

[Moose Milligan]

33 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I think this is very fair.  The CB is what the organization now likes, so I would assume that’s where they will try to get him to get better.  
 

I think the fastball is better than you say, again, if the velocity stays.

Yes, the velocity staying will be key.  I think it has decent movement, but nothing special.  But as long as there's good separation between the fastball velocity and changeup velocity, that's what matters most.  

He ended 2020 on a great note, I'm really looking forward to seeing what he can do this season.  

[VaBird1]

4 hours ago, Roll Tide said:

Here is his MLB.com card from 2017

He has pretty average stuff!

He started working with P3 after the 2018 season.

[wildcard]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

Yes, the velocity staying will be key.  I think it has decent movement, but nothing special.  But as long as there's good separation between the fastball velocity and changeup velocity, that's what matters most.  

He ended 2020 on a great note, I'm really looking forward to seeing what he can do this season.  

I don't think velocity is the issue with him.

He had a really good 2019.  Then in the off season he added muscle.   He came to camp bigger and strong.   He missed the opening day assignment of the DL with arm fatigue.   When he came back he was not as good as 2019.  His father passed away in early August  and he missed some time.  When he came back his fastball was faster but he was not effective.  He has lost the feel for his off speed stuff. 

In early Sept Hyde called him into the office and told him he was not himself.   To stop pitching max effort.  Stop trying to strike out everyone.

He listened and finished the season with 4 really good games.  Here is Roch's blog on the talk with Hyde.  https://www.masnsports.com/school-of-roch/2020/09/banged-up-orioles-get-healthier-in-standings-with-11-2-win.html

Here is his game log for the season.  Look at the last 4 games.   https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=meansjo01&t=p&year=2020

So I think its his approach that will make him better is 2021 not more velocity.

 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Here is his game log for the season.  Look at the last 4 games.   https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/gl.fcgi?id=meansjo01&t=p&year=2020

 

 

While his velocity was down a bit in September he was still throwing harder than at any point in 2018-2019.

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/velo.php?player=607644&time=&startDate=03/30/2007&endDate=12/12/2020&s_type=2

[ChosenOne21]

I read a Fangraphs article the other day that said really good things about Means's slider:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/can-john-means-build-on-a-strong-rookie-season/
 

Quote

Out of all of his pitches, it’s his slider that yielded the best results. The pitch produced 21 strikeouts in 88 at-bats with a .170 batting average against (.200 BABIP) and an even distribution of groundball, fly ball, and line drive contact. Means mainly used the pitch against left-handed hitters, and because he sees them less often, it (unfortunately) doesn’t get thrown as much as it should.

Means made some changes to the design of his slider in the second half of the season and developed a pretty effective weapon. He adjusted the spin axis by 16 degrees vertically, and along with an extra 100 rpms plus a 0.5 mph drop in velocity, Means was able to add an extra two inches of drop and an additional half-inch of horizontal movement.

The article was written before last season, though