Eduardo Rodriguez

[Hazmat]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

IIRC, there was even rumors that he didn't have a 3 year offer.

He came here because we went to a level, price wise, that no one else would.

That's where the franchise is.  We are either going to have to way overpay, trade for pitching, develop pitching or get someone no one wants, like Harvey.  No one who has options is coming here for a market value deal.

I think we all know this and its not really that hard to figure out.  

What I find to be a more interesting topic is how does this change.  Obviously winning will help but I think it goes beyond that.  I wonder if Adley will effect things?  We see how he is with pitchers now.  The guys in the minors love him.  They speak glowingly about his leadership.  Word of something like that spreads rapidly within that tight knit group of pitchers around the league.   

I also anticipate that we'll take a couple pitchers in the Rule 5 that could ultimately serve as starters.  If we hit on one or two, we can plan to get them into the rotation the following year like they will probably do with Tyler Wells.

[Ruzious]

3 minutes ago, Hazmat said:

I also anticipate that we'll take a couple pitchers in the Rule 5 that could ultimately serve as starters.  If we hit on one or two, we can plan to get them into the rotation the following year like they will probably do with Tyler Wells.

I think Wells is our closer for the next several years, but I see your point.  

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, Hazmat said:

I also anticipate that we'll take a couple pitchers in the Rule 5 that could ultimately serve as starters.  If we hit on one or two, we can plan to get them into the rotation the following year like they will probably do with Tyler Wells.

I think if they are picking up guys in the Rule V with the idea of them becoming starters this rebuild is never going to come to fruition.

[Hazmat]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I think if they are picking up guys in the Rule V with the idea of them becoming starters this rebuild is never going to come to fruition.

Maybe.  But this is what Tony wrote in another thread back in June.  It might be an indictment of our system, but all the same, if we can add SP talent through the Rule V, we need to do it based on all the reasons made clear in this thread.

Take a look at his repertoire here https://baseballsavant.mlb.com/savant-player/tyler-wells-669330?stats=statcast-r-pitching-mlb

He's thrown 69 changeups and has flashed a curve (35 of them), something he used more in spring training before settling in on the slider in relief.  While he could end up a decent fastball slider reliever, looking at the options available, Wells should be given every opportunity to start next year and maybe even this year. His fastball gets a very solid 30.2 whiff and he can show three other pitches that he throws for strikes and can get whiffs on his slider (35.5%) and change (39.5%). 

The Orioles didn't draft him to be a reliever long term, they drafted him because he has starter potential. If he were in the system right now, I'd have him ranked above Bradish and maybe Bauman if Baumann can't get his act together. 

Basically he's the 3rd best starting pitcher under 27 in the organization.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

He signed on March 21st.

 

So what?   That doesn’t mean he didn’t have offers.   He just didn’t have one he liked.   

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, Frobby said:

So what?   That doesn’t mean he didn’t have offers.   He just didn’t have one he liked.   

I didn't say he didn't have offers.  I said he didn't have comparable offers.

 

[Philip]

2 hours ago, Moose Milligan said:

It's easy to say that good pitchers won't come here (and I agree with that sentiment) but I think we also lose track of the fact that it's not like this organization has really tried in recent years.

Alex Cobb came off a decent year before signing here.  Ubaldo (I know, I know) re-established his value in Cleveland in 2013 before signing here, too.  

Those are the names that come to mind immediately when it comes to multi-year deals at a 10 million a year+ contract value.  I'm sure I'm probably forgetting some but I'm too lazy to look it up.

IMO, I don't see this organization trying to sign a bunch of these guys each year and coming up short.  I don't see the organization trying at all.

So, again, IMO, maybe they'd come here if the Orioles actually tried.  

You forgot Gallardo, and I completely understand why.

I agree with your point completely, anybody who has meaningful value won’t come here. I suggested Davies exactly because of that, because he’s declined and might be cheap. However, if he’s going to be expensive regardless, then we need to pass. We are only going to sign the damaged guys, the lousy guys or the old guys.

We need to find our next year’s rotation by, “… Seeking out the poorer quarters where the ragged people go, looking for the places only they would know.”

[Moose Milligan]

7 minutes ago, Philip said:

You forgot Gallardo, and I completely understand why.

I agree with your point completely, anybody who has meaningful value won’t come here. I suggested Davies exactly because of that, because he’s declined and might be cheap. However, if he’s going to be expensive regardless, then we need to pass. We are only going to sign the damaged guys, the lousy guys or the old guys.

We need to find our next year’s rotation by, “… Seeking out the poorer quarters where the ragged people go, looking for the places only they would know.”

My overall point is that...we think we know that they won't come here.  Logically, that makes sense.

However, we also can't be 100% sure because the Orioles hardly ever try.

[Sports Guy]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

My overall point is that...we think we know that they won't come here.  Logically, that makes sense.

However, we also can't be 100% sure because the Orioles hardly ever try.

And this is true.

For a vet on his last legs trying to win a title, I wouldn’t think we are attractive (say Verlander for example)

But the Os should be able to sell themselves to a guy like ERod.  Not that he wants to lose but someone who may “sacrifice” Winning for a year for the long term upside.  
 

This is all part of the job..can you sell them on what you are doing?  

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

And this is true.

For a vet on his last legs trying to win a title, I wouldn’t think we are attractive (say Verlander for example)

But the Os should be able to sell themselves to a guy like ERod.  Not that he wants to lose but someone who may “sacrifice” Winning for a year for the long term upside.  
 

This is all part of the job..can you sell them on what you are doing?  

This is funny, I was actually about to bring up Verlander.

If you're a guy like Verlander (in his prime) and you're the ****ing ****, do you really care if you're playing in the AL East or not?  If you're a top 5, top 10 pitcher, do you care if you're facing the Sox, Yanks, Jays and Rays often?  

We're forgetting that these guys are also top flight competitors.  We're dismissing the fact that they might actually like the challenge.  

In regards to your final point...yeah, it's a sales job for sure.  Sell them on what you're doing, how they can fit in.  I'm not sure if Elias can...but that's only because he doesn't appear to have made the effort to guys that can move the needle forward at all.  A Matt Harvey type doesn't count.

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:

This is funny, I was actually about to bring up Verlander.

If you're a guy like Verlander (in his prime) and you're the ****ing ****, do you really care if you're playing in the AL East or not?  If you're a top 5, top 10 pitcher, do you care if you're facing the Sox, Yanks, Jays and Rays often?  

We're forgetting that these guys are also top flight competitors.  We're dismissing the fact that they might actually like the challenge.  

In regards to your final point...yeah, it's a sales job for sure.  Sell them on what you're doing, how they can fit in.  I'm not sure if Elias can...but that's only because he doesn't appear to have made the effort to guys that can move the needle forward at all.  A Matt Harvey type doesn't count.

I think Verlander would be fine with it if we were winning.

And I agree with your point..TBH, if a player is too soft to pitch here and in this division, why would you want them anyway?

And yea, we don’t know about Elias.  Right now, he hasn’t shown us that he can be a “major league GM”.  He can be a “minor league GM” and is excellent at it.  He has to show he can take that next step in his own skill set to be better.

[RZNJ]

59 minutes ago, Ruzious said:

No matter who the player is, his last year is the best indicator of what he'll do in the future - unless there's an injury or some other reasonable cause for the dropoff.  

And I even said the current year doesn't completely erase what he's done before.  

I think if someone gives Davies a multi-year deal at 10 plus mil a year, they will regret it.  Do you disagree?    

 

 

 

A 3/30 contract.  I don't think they would regret that no.  

[OsFanSinceThe80s]

2 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

This is funny, I was actually about to bring up Verlander.

If you're a guy like Verlander (in his prime) and you're the ****ing ****, do you really care if you're playing in the AL East or not?  If you're a top 5, top 10 pitcher, do you care if you're facing the Sox, Yanks, Jays and Rays often?  

We're forgetting that these guys are also top flight competitors.  We're dismissing the fact that they might actually like the challenge.  

In regards to your final point...yeah, it's a sales job for sure.  Sell them on what you're doing, how they can fit in.  I'm not sure if Elias can...but that's only because he doesn't appear to have made the effort to guys that can move the needle forward at all.  A Matt Harvey type doesn't count.

If (and a big if) the O's can develop a young talented core of players and get a starting rotation that is led by Means, Rodriguez and Hall, then Elias should be able to recruit top flight veteran pitchers.

If a Verlander or Greinke type starter is the final piece to make the O's a top flight playoff contender then players will not have a problem joining the Orioles. 

The main blocker is going to be ownership spending the money necessary to bring in pitching talent and the prospects panning out. 

 

[Frobby]

29 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I didn't say he didn't have offers.  I said he didn't have comparable offers.

 

You said “serious” offers.   I guess we can all debate what that means.   

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:

If (and a big if) the O's can develop a young talented core of players and get a starting rotation that is led by Means, Rodriguez and Hall, then Elias should be able to recruit top flight veteran pitchers.

If a Verlander or Greinke type starter is the final piece to make the O's a top flight playoff contender then players will not have a problem joining the Orioles. 

The main blocker is going to be ownership spending the money necessary to bring in pitching talent and the prospects panning out. 

 

It really does keep coming back to this, doesn’t it?

We have 2 huge unknowns…can Elias properly build a winning ML roster and what is the ownership commitment to this team?  

We just don’t know the answers yet and it’s frustrating as a fan.