Buy The Arms, The Astro Way!

[Can_of_corn]

 

[Just Regular]

Kevin Goldstein understandably proud of the club's early adoption of pitch data analysis of young Latin arms.

Not even July 2 bonus babies, not even 16-year-olds.   Urquidy was 19 then, Framber 21, Javier just 17.9 (or is that elderly here?).    

Luis Garcia was at least a proper July 2, 2017.    They give HOU more of a chance to survive trash can gate than I thought they had.

• March 2, 2015

  Signed Jose Urquidy as an amateur free agent.

• March 18, 2015

  Signed Cristian Javier as an amateur free agent.

  Signed Framber Valdez as an amateur free agent.

[Ruzious]

I'd love to get the next Charlie Morton - he's aging exceptionally well - not to mention he's pitching a gem tonight - at least through the first 5 innings.  

[emmett16]

Is the point of this thread to point out that after you buy the arms to finish a rebuild, you sustain your winning ways with players from the system?

[Yossarian]

Looking at their staff and salaries for this year:

Greinke - $35M

Verlandaer - $33M

Odorizzi - $9M

Pressly - 8.75M

McKullers - $7.08M

Baez - $4.75M

Montero - $2.25M

Raley - $2M

Garcia - $1.9M

Stanek - $1.1M

15 others making a combined $7.48M

Will the O's ever spend like that for arms to compete?

 

 

[Can_of_corn]

4 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

Is the point of this thread to point out that after you buy the arms to finish a rebuild, you sustain your winning ways with players from the system?

Slavishly following a certain model isn't going to work as teams and situations evolve.  You can't simply do what the A's did, or what the Astros did or what the Rays do.

Folks that have just been saying that the O's can trade off excess position players to get front line pitchers aren't being realistic.  The Astros took advantage of a certain set of opportunities that are not the norm.  They were also to a degree forced into the "Astro way" as their top of the draft pitching selections didn't pan out for them. 

I think the actual plan was to develop pitching and they were forced to deviate it.

[Yossarian]

3 minutes ago, Yossarian said:

Looking at their staff and salaries for this year:

Greinke - $35M

Verlandaer - $33M

Odorizzi - $9M

Pressly - 8.75M

McKullers - $7.08M

Baez - $4.75M

Montero - $2.25M

Raley - $2M

Garcia - $1.9M

Stanek - $1.1M

15 others making a combined $7.48M

Will the O's ever spend like that for arms to compete?

 

 

Correction:

Add Graveman to the first list at $1.25M and those 15 "others" make a combined $9.27M, 7.48

[Yossarian]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

Slavishly following a certain model isn't going to work as teams and situations evolve.  You can't simply do what the A's did, or what the Astros did or what the Rays do.

Folks that have just been saying that the O's can trade off excess position players to get front line pitchers aren't being realistic.  The Astros took advantage of a certain set of opportunities that are not the norm.  They were also to a degree forced into the "Astro way" as their top of the draft pitching selections didn't pan out for them. 

I think the actual plan was to develop pitching and they were forced to deviate it.

I really think they are going to have to lure pitchers via free agency and not rely on trades.  Free Agents to supplement home-grown arms obtained through the draft.  We also need better pitching coaches in the minor leagues to develop arms.

[Yossarian]

Interesting to note --

The Astros starting outfield for the playoffs:

LF - Yordan Alvarez -- $609,000

CF - Jake Myers - $570,00

RF - Kyle Tucker - $570,500

That's an inexpensive outfield for a playoff team that won 95 games and their division.

[emmett16]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Slavishly following a certain model isn't going to work as teams and situations evolve.  You can't simply do what the A's did, or what the Astros did or what the Rays do.

Folks that have just been saying that the O's can trade off excess position players to get front line pitchers aren't being realistic.  The Astros took advantage of a certain set of opportunities that are not the norm.  They were also to a degree forced into the "Astro way" as their top of the draft pitching selections didn't pan out for them. 

I think the actual plan was to develop pitching and they were forced to deviate it.

Perhaps.  But you OP points out that 60% of the SP from 2018 Astros were acquired from other teams.  You also pointed out that Astros tried to develop their own pitching and failed, thus separating the strategies employed by the Orioles currently.  So it doesn't seem they are 'slavishly following a certain model'.   What Elias' master plan is we can only guess at and watch play out.   

[waroriole]

14 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Slavishly following a certain model isn't going to work as teams and situations evolve.  You can't simply do what the A's did, or what the Astros did or what the Rays do.

Folks that have just been saying that the O's can trade off excess position players to get front line pitchers aren't being realistic.  The Astros took advantage of a certain set of opportunities that are not the norm.  They were also to a degree forced into the "Astro way" as their top of the draft pitching selections didn't pan out for them. 

I think the actual plan was to develop pitching and they were forced to deviate it.

I agree that we’re gonna have to go in on FA SP. And it’s foolish to project that you’re gonna have excess at a position that you can just trade from it. But when is the right time to go in on SP? 

[emmett16]

3 minutes ago, waroriole said:

I agree that we’re gonna have to go in on FA SP. And it’s foolish to project that you’re gonna have excess at a position that you can just trade from it. But when is the right time to go in on SP? 

I think they need to identify Pitchers that would be willing to take a 1 year deal and sign them above value.  They need to find a way to keep offensive player's salary to a minimum and pay out the wazoo for SP.  Identify a mercenary that is willing to bet on himself with 1 year deals and pay 10-20% above market value.  

[Can_of_corn]

25 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

Perhaps.  But you OP points out that 60% of the SP from 2018 Astros were acquired from other teams.  You also pointed out that Astros tried to develop their own pitching and failed, thus separating the strategies employed by the Orioles currently.  So it doesn't seem they are 'slavishly following a certain model'.   What Elias' master plan is we can only guess at and watch play out.   

I wasn't suggesting that the Orioles were, I was talking about the fans here who are suggesting that is the O's plan.

 

[waroriole]

40 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

I think they need to identify Pitchers that would be willing to take a 1 year deal and sign them above value.  They need to find a way to keep offensive player's salary to a minimum and pay out the wazoo for SP.  Identify a mercenary that is willing to bet on himself with 1 year deals and pay 10-20% above market value.  

Who would you use as an example from this year’s class?

[emmett16]

7 minutes ago, waroriole said:

Who would you use as an example from this year’s class?

I'm terrible at these types of things.  But I'd target Greinke, Gray, Stroman, and Syndergaard on one year deals.   As I said before they'd need to target mercenary style players and as a casual fan I have no way of learning that info.  I do know if highest annual value is on table(which would help players union in future negotiations), the union would put pressure on pitcher to take that deal.  

I don't think they could afford/lure players like Scherzer, Ray, or Kershaw.  And I imagine Kevin Gausman will never come back to this organization unless his life depended on it.