Roch guesses OD lineup…Urias at SS

[emmett16]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

All the money for that has been put aside already.

Thanks.  I did not realize that was the case.  

[Sports Guy]

10 minutes ago, forphase1 said:

Which is vastly different than trying to lose.  Yes, they aren't spending money on high dollar free agents (or even middle dollar for that matter) to try to squeeze out a handful more wins, nor are they going to rush or quickly promote prospects in order to get the talent in the lineup quicker, rather service time and other considerations are more important.  Which I believe is smart, in both cases.  

Do you think the team can/will go from 55-65 wins to contention in one year?

[Sports Guy]

33 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

Elias walked into a company that had a -6.5mm net profit the year prior to his hire and 100+mm lawsuit that will need to be paid up sometime in the near future.  Then the pandemic hit....  Wouldn't call that an ATM.  

 

I have ZERO desire to watch a 75 win team.  Would rather keep up with my fantasy team and continue to watch slow sustained improvement from the lower levels trickle up to the MLB team.  

 

I also believe they will spend when the time comes.  That will be my last straw if they don't.  I've hung on for a lifetime so far, but I'm not an eternal optimist.  If they do not take advantage of the position they put themselves in over the next few years, my time as an Orioles fan will be up.  But as stated before, the new regime has been a breath of fresh air.  If the wool is being pulled over my eyes, I'll gladly admit I was fooled and move on.  

 

That's all for now.  Time to go surfing  

You keep talking about different things.

What the organization is doing, outside of the ML team, is great.  This is stuff I have been asking for over the course of the last 2 decades.  
 

But it’s easy to separate that stuff and what’s going on with the Ml team for 2022.   I’m talking about the ML team for 2022 and nothing else.  The idea of essentially tanking again.  The idea that they won 47 games in 2018 and are barely better than that right now.

Now, you say you don’t want to watch a 75 win team.  First of all, I don’t understand the thought process of not wanting to watch a better product and I guarantee you most fans would disagree with that but hey, to each their own.

Now, what I don’t think any of us want is some team full of mediocre players taking up payroll now and long term just to win 40-45% of the games played.  But a team that still is filled with the young talent, sprinkled in with some good vet guys signed to reasonable contracts both now And long term should be something everyone would want.

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

I do believe that the players, coaches and manager are trying to win every game.

I also believe that the GM intentionally provided a non-competitive roster in an effort to both spend as little as possible and improve draft position.

I believe they are spending as little as possible to maximize chances of contending in the future. I don't think they are deliberately suppressing wins although it is sometimes hard to tell the difference. 

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I believe they are spending as little as possible to maximize chances of contending in the future. I don't think they are deliberately suppressing wins although it is sometimes hard to tell the difference. 

How does spending less now maximize chances of contending long term?

[Can_of_corn]

3 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

I believe they are spending as little as possible to maximize chances of contending in the future. I don't think they are deliberately suppressing wins although it is sometimes hard to tell the difference. 

What does that mean if you don't think they are trying to suppress wins? 

[Aristotelian]

1 hour ago, Can_of_corn said:

What does that mean if you don't think they are trying to suppress wins? 

Deliberately suppressing would be playing Ryan Ripken. 

[Can_of_corn]

2 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Deliberately suppressing would be playing Ryan Ripken. 

They have to at least make a pretense of fielding a team.

They can't just pick up guys with will work for food signs off the street.

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

All the money for that has been put aside already.

Not clear that it was.   I had assumed MASN had reserved enough money to pay the disputed amount, but then something I read suggested that the money had already been distributed and would have to be clawed back.   Also, I’d need to remind myself of the timing, but I don’t think the second arbitration award had been made yet when Elias became GM.

[Can_of_corn]

47 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Not clear that it was.   I had assumed MASN had reserved enough money to pay the disputed amount, but then something I read suggested that the money had already been distributed and would have to be clawed back.   Also, I’d need to remind myself of the timing, but I don’t think the second arbitration award had been made yet when Elias became GM.

You are the expert but everything I read indicated that they had to set that money aside pending resolution.

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

You are the expert but everything I read indicated that they had to set that money aside pending resolution.

Whatever the case was, they weren’t blindsided by the result and planned accordingly.  This is a crutch and another excuse.  

[Can_of_corn]

19 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Whatever the case was, they weren’t blindsided by the result and planned accordingly.  This is a crutch and another excuse.  

If they were allowed to distribute the money and it is no longer there to pay the award that's a big deal, even if they are the ones that caused the issue. 

We don't know that they planned accordingly.

 

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

You are the expert but everything I read indicated that they had to set that money aside pending resolution.

MASN did eventually have to post a bond in order to pursue its appeal of the 2nd arbitration ruling.   That was long after Elias became GM, so it’s not the case that money had been set aside before he got to Baltimore.   

I would need to go back and remind myself of the history here.   I had always thought that any prudent business would have reserved the money awarded the first time to have funds available, and said that for years here, but something in the court record later persuaded me that MASN hadn’t done this.   I’ll see if I can track it down.  
 

[OriolesMagic83]

11 hours ago, Frobby said:

Not clear that it was.   I had assumed MASN had reserved enough money to pay the disputed amount, but then something I read suggested that the money had already been distributed and would have to be clawed back.   Also, I’d need to remind myself of the timing, but I don’t think the second arbitration award had been made yet when Elias became GM.

Distributed to the Angelos family pockets, never to be seen again.

[Frobby]

14 hours ago, Frobby said:

MASN did eventually have to post a bond in order to pursue its appeal of the 2nd arbitration ruling.   That was long after Elias became GM, so it’s not the case that money had been set aside before he got to Baltimore.   

I would need to go back and remind myself of the history here.   I had always thought that any prudent business would have reserved the money awarded the first time to have funds available, and said that for years here, but something in the court record later persuaded me that MASN hadn’t done this.   I’ll see if I can track it down.  
 

Here’s the gist: in the second arbitration award (April 2019), there is a page where the arbitrators discuss what the Nats and O’s should have been paid vs. what they actually were paid (both rights fees and profits). The amounts were redacted, but in an oral argument in the court case several months later, the amounts paid to the Nats are disclosed and you can calculate from that the amount paid to the O’s.    And it’s clear from that that MASN had not set the disputed money aside.

You can find some prior discussion of those numbers here: