Ramon Urias 29th percentile in arm strentgh

[RZNJ]

Do you really need a good arm to be a good 3B?   Ramon Urias, according to Baseball Savant, has a below average arm in the 29th percentile.   Justin Turner who has been a pretty good 3B for most of his career (as far as I can tell) is in the 28th percentile.   The idea that you "need" a plus or even ML average arm to be a good 3B seems to be a bit of a myth.   But is that really a surprise?   I grew up watching the greatest 3B of all time who had an "average at best" arm.    Aurelio Rodriguez had a gun.   Brooks was quick to exchange and throw and was deadly accurate but he did not have a plus arm.   At least, not in the late 60's and 70's when I watched him.   What say you?

[Sports Guy]

This is why I find it hard to believe Westburg couldn’t handle third.

Would he be great over there?  I don’t know.  But could he handle it and not be terrible?  I would think so.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Sports Guy

[Can_of_corn]

5 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Do you really need a good arm to be a good 3B?   Ramon Urias, according to Baseball Savant, has a below average arm in the 29th percentile.   Justin Turner who has been a pretty good 3B for most of his career (as far as I can tell) is in the 28th percentile.   The idea that you "need" a plus or even ML average arm to be a good 3B seems to be a bit of a myth.   But is that really a surprise?   I grew up watching the greatest 3B of all time who had an "average at best" arm.    Aurelio Rodriguez had a gun.   Brooks was quick to exchange and throw and was deadly accurate but he did not have a plus arm.   At least, not in the late 60's and 70's when I watched him.   What say you?

I'm pretty sure you need to have plus range, arm and hands to play any defensive position for the Orioles.

 

[RZNJ]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm pretty sure you need to have plus range, arm and hands to play any defensive position for the Orioles.

 

I'm not sure I understand.  Ramon Urias won a GG at 3B and plays a defensive position.  Are you saying that you think he has a plus arm?

[Can_of_corn]

12 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

I'm not sure I understand.  Ramon Urias won a GG at 3B and plays a defensive position.  Are you saying that you think he has a plus arm?

 Nope.  Making a comment about fan expectations.

[Frobby]

It helps to have a plus arm, but players with other strengths can compensate for  a weaker than average arm.  As an aside, I’m not 100% confident in this metric’s accuracy yet.  

[wildcard]

Urias certainly was not floating his throws to first.

[LA2]

On 11/17/2022 at 7:01 PM, RZNJ said:

Do you really need a good arm to be a good 3B?   Ramon Urias, according to Baseball Savant, has a below average arm in the 29th percentile.   Justin Turner who has been a pretty good 3B for most of his career (as far as I can tell) is in the 28th percentile.   The idea that you "need" a plus or even ML average arm to be a good 3B seems to be a bit of a myth.   But is that really a surprise?   I grew up watching the greatest 3B of all time who had an "average at best" arm.    Aurelio Rodriguez had a gun.   Brooks was quick to exchange and throw and was deadly accurate but he did not have a plus arm.   At least, not in the late 60's and 70's when I watched him.   What say you?

I remember Aurelio: he threw straight lasers to first with minimal set-up.

Edited November 19, 2022 by LA2

[RZNJ]

44 minutes ago, wildcard said:

Urias certainly was not floating his throws to first.

I agree. I think his arm is solid average to my eye test.  He, obviously, makes the plays he's supposed to make and more.  

[Tony-OH]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

It helps to have a plus arm, but players with other strengths can compensate for  a weaker than average arm.  As an aside, I’m not 100% confident in this metric’s accuracy yet.  

This. Arm strength alone is not the only metric. Quickness of release, ability to throw on the run, accuracy are all big parts of throwing from 3B. Plus, what the difference in the 29th percentile and 50 percentile? How do you convert that into steps by an average runner. Hard to really know.

[Frobby]

37 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

This. Arm strength alone is not the only metric. Quickness of release, ability to throw on the run, accuracy are all big parts of throwing from 3B. Plus, what the difference in the 29th percentile and 50 percentile? How do you convert that into steps by an average runner. Hard to really know.

That could probably be calculated.  I’ll give it a shot at some point.   

[ChuckS]

2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

 Nope.  Making a comment about fan expectations.

Fan expectations or Orioles Hangout expectations?

A random fan I talked to at Camden Yards was adamant that we resign Jordan Lyles.  He felt that veteran leadership and moxy couldn't be replaced.  

[OriolesMagic83]

40 minutes ago, ChuckS said:

Fan expectations or Orioles Hangout expectations?

A random fan I talked to at Camden Yards was adamant that we resign Jordan Lyles.  He felt that veteran leadership and moxy couldn't be replaced.  

Could the O's resign Odor and convert him to a starter?  That would provide the needed leadership and moxy and fill the SP spot.  Everyone was always raving about Odor's arm.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

That could probably be calculated.  I’ll give it a shot at some point.   

OK, here we go. To start, 1 mph = 1.46 ft/sec.  Urias’ throws average 81.5 mph = 119 ft/sec.  The distance from 3B to 1B is 127.2 feet.  So, a throw by Urias from 3B to 1B takes 1.069 seconds.   

The average 3B throws 85.7 mph which is 125.1 ft/sec.   So that throw takes 1.015 seconds.  Urias’ throw takes 0.054 seconds longer.  

it takes a really fast runner about 0.32 seconds to run the final ten feet to 1B.  So, the difference between the Urias throw and the average throw is about 1.7 feet for the runner.  A sprinting stride is about 7 feet.   So, the different between an average Urias throw and a league average 3B throw is about a quarter-stride.  


 

[Tony-OH]

46 minutes ago, Frobby said:

OK, here we go. To start, 1 mph = 1.46 ft/sec.  Urias’ throws average 81.5 mph = 119 ft/sec.  The distance from 3B to 1B is 127.2 feet.  So, a throw by Urias from 3B to 1B takes 1.069 seconds.   

The average 3B throws 85.7 mph which is 125.1 ft/sec.   So that throw takes 1.015 seconds.  Urias’ throw takes 0.054 seconds longer.  

it takes a really fast runner about 0.32 seconds to run the final ten feet to 1B.  So, the difference between the Urias throw and the average throw is about 1.7 feet for the runner.  A sprinting stride is about 7 feet.   So, the different between an average Urias throw and a league average 3B throw is about a quarter-stride.  


 

Hmm, interesting. Now of course this assumes each 3B has the same release time which as we know, is not going to be the same. Using the average velocity for infielders is tough because not every throw needs full power and we know infielders will take MPH for accuracy if the runners are slow or the ball got to them particularly fast. 

I honestly think max throwing MPH might be better to use, but I haven't done the study. These MPHs are nice to know, but I'm not sure they give us the full story.