“Orioles big game shopping & most believe it's exclusively rotation”

[Roll Tide]

15 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Rodon missed 1/4 of his starts in 2021 due to issues with his throwing shoulder, which was not the first or second or even third time that he has missed large chunks of time with injuries to his throwing arm.

Yet DeGrom has still missed considerably more time that Rodon.

[emmett16]

2 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Yet DeGrom has still missed considerably more time that Rodon.

I expect both DeGrom & Rodon will spend a significant amount of time on the IL over the course of their next contract. I’d be pretty thrilled if we signed either of them.  I highly doubt we are serious contenders for either of them.  

[Can_of_corn]

7 minutes ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

So a non sequitur. Got it.

I don't see how.

You were literally talking about a pitcher missing time over multiple seasons due to issues with their throwing shoulder.

How is it not logical to compare that phenomenon with a current pitcher for the Orioles who has dealt with the same issue?

I think most of us are familiar with the time Means has missed with his shoulder issue.

Just because you needed it explained...

[DrinkinWithFermi]

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't see how.

You were literally talking about a pitcher missing time over multiple seasons due to issues with their throwing shoulder.

How is it not logical to compare that phenomenon with a current pitcher for the Orioles who has dealt with the same issue?

I think most of us are familiar with the time Means has missed with his shoulder issue.

Just because you needed it explained...

Means isn't an injury prone free agent pitcher looking for an enormous contract so he is pretty irrelevant to what was being discussed, which was whether it is a risk worth taking for the Orioles to give an injury prone free agent pitcher an enormous contract.

[Can_of_corn]

Just now, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Means isn't an injury prone free agent pitcher looking for an enormous contract so he is pretty irrelevant to what was being discussed, which was whether it is a risk worth taking for the Orioles to give an injury prone free agent pitcher an enormous contract.

True.

But I was clearly (I thought) only talking about the shoulder injuries.  That would be why I quoted what I quoted.

 

[DrinkinWithFermi]

12 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:

Yet DeGrom has still missed considerably more time that Rodon.

For their (concurrent) careers? Rodon has missed more time due to injury by a wide margin. Excluding his first season, 2015, when he split time between the bullpen and rotation, and the shortened 2020 season, he made 122 of a possible 192 starts. deGrom made 145 of 192 starts during the same time period. And in 2020, Rodon pitched in 4 games (2 starts) while deGrom made all 12 of his starts.

Ultimately my point is simply that it is not consistent to be opposed to signing deGrom because he is "injury prone" but to then be in favor of signing Rodon to an even longer contract when he has been even more injury prone than deGrom and for even longer.

11 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

True.

But I was clearly (I thought) only talking about the shoulder injuries.  That would be why I quoted what I quoted.

 

We can argue about whether signing Means to an expensive long-term deal is a good idea or a bad idea in a year or two, one pointless internet argument that won't actually affect anything in the real world at a time  

[Camden Yards]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/11/white-sox-in-agreement-with-mike-clevinger.html

[Jim'sKid26]

3 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

 

The only way the O's can't afford that type of contract is if ownership is demanding a certain level of profitability that precludes it.

Y'all seem to think that you have a clear view of the Orioles financial situation. I think that you don't have any clue as to how much Elias has to spend. The Angelos Family lawsuit has an impact. The MASN lawsuit has an impact. The specter of the Chris Davis debacle has an impact. There are many things that effect the budget given to Elias to spend on payroll. 

The choice to tank and put the fans through multiple years of really putrid baseball was a completely financial one. Yes, of course the team could spend a lot more money this year. But they won't. This team has operated like a small market team for many years when in actuality it is much more of a mid market team demographically.   

The Orioles have put themselves into position where they have quite a bit of payroll flexibility. But the Angelos family continues to hamstring the franchise with their legal adventurism and sibling squabbles. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see them swimming in the big spender pond this off season.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

Y'all seem to think that you have a clear view of the Orioles financial situation. I think that you don't have any clue as to how much Elias has to spend. The Angelos Family lawsuit has an impact. The MASN lawsuit has an impact. The specter of the Chris Davis debacle has an impact. There are many things that effect the budget given to Elias to spend on payroll. 

The choice to tank and put the fans through multiple years of really putrid baseball was a completely financial one. Yes, of course the team could spend a lot more money this year. But they won't. This team has operated like a small market team for many years when in actuality it is much more of a mid market team demographically.   

The Orioles have put themselves into position where they have quite a bit of payroll flexibility. But the Angelos family continues to hamstring the franchise with their legal adventurism and sibling squabbles. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see them swimming in the big spender pond this off season.

Which would be why I said what I said when you quoted me.

 

[Jim'sKid26]

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Which would be why I said what I said when you quoted me.

 

Exactly.......

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, Jim'sKid26 said:

Y'all seem to think that you have a clear view of the Orioles financial situation. I think that you don't have any clue as to how much Elias has to spend. The Angelos Family lawsuit has an impact. The MASN lawsuit has an impact. The specter of the Chris Davis debacle has an impact. There are many things that effect the budget given to Elias to spend on payroll. 

The choice to tank and put the fans through multiple years of really putrid baseball was a completely financial one. Yes, of course the team could spend a lot more money this year. But they won't. This team has operated like a small market team for many years when in actuality it is much more of a mid market team demographically.   

The Orioles have put themselves into position where they have quite a bit of payroll flexibility. But the Angelos family continues to hamstring the franchise with their legal adventurism and sibling squabbles. I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see them swimming in the big spender pond this off season.

I agree we don’t really know what budget Elias has been given.  However, I disagree with several things you said.

1.  I don’t think the Angelos family squabble has much impact at all on the Orioles’ finances.  The Orioles aren’t a party to the case, and the relief sought in the case doesn’t impact the team’s finances.   

2.  I would not say the O’s are a mid-market team demographically, depending on where you want to draw the line.  They’re not Oakland, Tampa or Pittsburgh, but they’re somewhere in the bottom ten out of 30.   There’s a reason they’re given a competitive balance pick every year.  

3.  They have not always operated like a small market team.  They certainly weren’t doing that in 2013 (13th largest payroll), 2014 (13th), 2015 (15th), 2016 (10th), 2017 (11th) or 2018 (14th).  
 

[AnythingO's]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

Fair point.  Operating income is all that’s reported/estimated by Forbes.  I don’t have any information about net income.  

Do we know how much each team gets from MLB, revenue sharing? We should be able the estimate the MASN income I guess. Do we know what is included in Operating income? Is it just ticket sales, food, drink, conessions?

[CharmCityHokie]

2 hours ago, Camden Yards said:

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/11/white-sox-in-agreement-with-mike-clevinger.html

I wasn't really pushing for Clevinger, but for 1/$8mm it's not a bad deal. 

[Roll Tide]

4 hours ago, emmett16 said:

I expect both DeGrom & Rodon will spend a significant amount of time on the IL over the course of their next contract. I’d be pretty thrilled if we signed either of them.  I highly doubt we are serious contenders for either of them.  

I’m not thrilled to pay $30-$40 million for any pitcher that’s likely to only give you half a season for that money.

[Roll Tide]

32 minutes ago, AnythingO's said:

Do we know how much each team gets from MLB, revenue sharing? We should be able the estimate the MASN income I guess. Do we know what is included in Operating income? Is it just ticket sales, food, drink, conessions?

I’m estimating 210+ million per team based on these two articles

 

Quote

 each MLB team get from revenue sharing?

Along with the TV deals, MLB teams also receive extra money through revenue sharing. Each team pools 48% of the revenue they earn and the total amount is then split evenly (3.3% of the total) and given to each team. Teams receive more than $110 million through revenue sharing.Feb

Quote

Feb 12, 2022 — MLB's TV deals with ESPN and Turner Sports will begin in 2022 and combined with local deals, each club will get at least $100 million.