Jackson Holliday 2023

[Sports Guy]

4-5 with a homer tonight.

[Hallas]

20 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

4-5 with a homer tonight.

AAA when?

[Gurgi]

If Jackson makes it up at SS next year.  That pushes Gunnar to third?  Westburg takes second?  Positions start to get tight.  What happens with Norby and Mayo?  

[Rbiggs2525]

2 minutes ago, Gurgi said:

If Jackson makes it up at SS next year.  That pushes Gunnar to third?  Westburg takes second?  Positions start to get tight.  What happens with Norby and Mayo?  

We have platoons, we have back up positions. No matter what these players are Orioles for 5-6 years. 

[RZNJ]

Holliday to CF or even LF is starting to creep into my thoughts.  I know, blasphemy.

[Bemorewins]

4 hours ago, scarey1999 said:

Pretty clear to me by what he said and the words he chose to use in the interview re: getting bigger, stronger faster, that he fully plans to be on the majors in some point next season. 

I hope that’s the plan. He can probably out hit any infielder not named Gunnar Henderson in our org right now. I don’t think there is any harm with playing him at 2B beginning Opening Day next year. From this point out we need to start prioritizing our best rosters at the big league level. 

[Bemorewins]

12 minutes ago, Rbiggs2525 said:

We have platoons, we have back up positions. No matter what these players are Orioles for 5-6 years. 

Gunnar and Holliday are not going to be platooned.

[baltfan]

Love Jackson but two of these “hits”  were questionable. 

[Alasdaire]

2 hours ago, Gurgi said:

If Jackson makes it up at SS next year.  That pushes Gunnar to third?  Westburg takes second?  Positions start to get tight.  What happens with Norby and Mayo?  

I think the infield defense with the highest ceiling is 1B Mayo/2B Holliday/3B Gunnar/SS Ortiz.

Joey is the best defender at the most important position, Gunnar has the arm/range for third, Mayo has the length and infield experience for first, and Jackson kind of defaults to second but that's not as disappointing as it used to be with the shift ban increasing the ground that needs to be covered there. That could be a dang good infield.

I'm not trying to disregard Westburg and Norby, just saying what I think is the best possible alignment we could field.

[CaptainRedbeard]

4 hours ago, Alasdaire said:

I think the infield defense with the highest ceiling is 1B Mayo/2B Holliday/3B Gunnar/SS Ortiz.

Joey is the best defender at the most important position, Gunnar has the arm/range for third, Mayo has the length and infield experience for first, and Jackson kind of defaults to second but that's not as disappointing as it used to be with the shift ban increasing the ground that needs to be covered there. That could be a dang good infield.

I'm not trying to disregard Westburg and Norby, just saying what I think is the best possible alignment we could field.

Westburg is 6’3” and definitely had the length to play 1B, and is otherwise much better defensively than Mayo. Westburg also has a ton of 3B experience playing the equivalent angles. Mayo should be able to play 1B but if you’re just talking about the two of them, Westburg is clearly ahead. 

Norby however is 5’9” so he seems exclusively confined to 2B/LF. 

Even though he’d be better than Mayo at 1B, Westburg has been so much better than expected defensively at 2B that he needs to be used there to some extent or you’re really giving up a lot of his value. I’ve assumed he could be the guy amongst Henderson/Ortiz/Holliday/Westburg that moves around more often to other positions besides 2B/SS/3B, and that is still likely the case. His sprint speed has been so good that he can probably play LF effectively too.

However, if Westburg is as good as he’s shown so far at 2B, it’s certainly a possibility that Holliday could be tried in the OF as well. A trade still seems to be the most likely “solution” but it’s something to monitor. 

[Alasdaire]

1 hour ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

Westburg is 6’3” and definitely had the length to play 1B, and is otherwise much better defensively than Mayo. Westburg also has a ton of 3B experience playing the equivalent angles. Mayo should be able to play 1B but if you’re just talking about the two of them, Westburg is clearly ahead. 

Norby however is 5’9” so he seems exclusively confined to 2B/LF. 

Even though he’d be better than Mayo at 1B, Westburg has been so much better than expected defensively at 2B that he needs to be used there to some extent or you’re really giving up a lot of his value. I’ve assumed he could be the guy amongst Henderson/Ortiz/Holliday/Westburg that moves around more often to other positions besides 2B/SS/3B, and that is still likely the case. His sprint speed has been so good that he can probably play LF effectively too.

However, if Westburg is as good as he’s shown so far at 2B, it’s certainly a possibility that Holliday could be tried in the OF as well. A trade still seems to be the most likely “solution” but it’s something to monitor. 

I understand the case you're making for Westburg at 1B in the abstract, but he has literally never played there at any level so far as I can tell. I think you have to go by the positions the homegrown guys were tried at in the minors as indicative of where the organization sees them playing. He has gotten a cup of coffee in the outfield, so I think that's probably more likely than 1B. He has the footspeed like you mentioned.

I do agree with Westburg looking good at 2B though. I haven't really seen the limitations at that position like some evaluators floated when he was coming up. I just think he's significantly outclassed in the field by Gunnar/Ortiz/Holliday, but no shame in that. The nice thing about Westburg is that he has played a lot at 2B, 3B and SS, so he is best suited for the role of moving around to spot other guys anyway.

 

[emmett16]

10 hours ago, Gurgi said:

If Jackson makes it up at SS next year.  That pushes Gunnar to third?  Westburg takes second?  Positions start to get tight.  What happens with Norby and Mayo?  

Insurance for when someone gets hurt.  Mayo 1B/DH.  Mayo scuffling a bit in AAA right now hitting and D.  You normally don’t hit on Everyone.  Pretty wild problem to have. 

Oh. And you forgot Ortiz.  I think it’ll be Ortiz SS, Holiday 2B, Gunnar 3B and Westburg floating all around.  

[CaptainRedbeard]

2 hours ago, Alasdaire said:

I understand the case you're making for Westburg at 1B in the abstract, but he has literally never played there at any level so far as I can tell. I think you have to go by the positions the homegrown guys were tried at in the minors as indicative of where the organization sees them playing. He has gotten a cup of coffee in the outfield, so I think that's probably more likely than 1B. He has the footspeed like you mentioned.

I do agree with Westburg looking good at 2B though. I haven't really seen the limitations at that position like some evaluators floated when he was coming up. I just think he's significantly outclassed in the field by Gunnar/Ortiz/Holliday, but no shame in that. The nice thing about Westburg is that he has played a lot at 2B, 3B and SS, so he is best suited for the role of moving around to spot other guys anyway.

 

Agreed that Westburg is outclassed by Gunnar and Ortiz defensively, and by all accounts should be by Holliday. I envision him potentially being our Ben Zobrist, who was a very good defensive 2B and got a lot of playing time there but also provided a lot of value by being plus defensively in the OF. (Or Chris Taylor or DJ LeMahieu as more recent examples of that mold of player.)

As for 1B, I think it’s a safe assumption that any player capable of playing 3B can do it effectively. It’s very similar and you don’t need the 3B arm, but the limiting factor is you do need length. Even though Westburg hasn’t played there in the minors I’m sure the Orioles think he could pick it up quite quickly. It’s more of a question in my mind whether he can play OF effectively even though he has some MiL experience there - much harder to move to the OF as an IF (and even moreso to move from the OF to 1B, as we’re seeing with Kjerstad).

The Orioles gave Urias a handful of starts at 1B this year and has he ever played that position professionally? And they seem not concerned at all about getting Mayo much time there even though that’s his apparent future home. Westburg could do it easily. 

[Number5]

28 minutes ago, CaptainRedbeard said:

Westburg could do it easily. 

Sorry.  Somebody had to do it.  

[yark14]

12 hours ago, Rbiggs2525 said:

We have platoons, we have back up positions. No matter what these players are Orioles for 5-6 years. 

Unfortunately, injuries happen too.  Depth at those positions is huge.