Adam Frazier 2023

[Pickles]

8 minutes ago, owknows said:

Nor did he have any intention of moving on from Odor.

Odor's playing time was significantly reduced once Henderson reached the big leagues.

[Baltimorecuse]

8 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Somewhere around year two, Hyde became the "sing praises effusively" of all of his players. In year one, he was more matter of fact when guys "needed to improve" but he either was "talked to" or decided on his own that he was going to be the guy who always praised his players in public. now I'm not saying he's wrong for doing that, and I have no idea what he says behind closed doors, but I also don't take too much out of what he says when he's signing those praises!

I don't think Hyde is going to say some idiot gave this clown 8 million to hit .230.  

[owknows]

3 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Odor's playing time was significantly reduced once Henderson reached the big leagues.

Roughned Odor had 161 PAs for the Orioles in August and September of last year.

 

[Tony-OH]

3 minutes ago, Baltimorecuse said:

I don't think Hyde is going to say some idiot gave this clown 8 million to hit .230.  

I would hope not because he's hitting .223!   

[Tony-OH]

9 minutes ago, Pickles said:

Odor's playing time was significantly reduced once Henderson reached the big leagues.

Over the last 2-3 weeks his playing time certainly dwindled, but not until then.

[glenn__davis]

14 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Somewhere around year two, Hyde became the "sing praises effusively" of all of his players. In year one, he was more matter of fact when guys "needed to improve" but he either was "talked to" or decided on his own that he was going to be the guy who always praised his players in public. now I'm not saying he's wrong for doing that, and I have no idea what he says behind closed doors, but I also don't take too much out of what he says when he's signing those praises!

I don't disagree with this - but you had to watch the interview, the reaction to the reporter when Frazier was brought up.  I'm pretty good at recognizing lip service, lord knows we get lots of practice with that with Elias.  Hyder loves him some Adam Frazier.

[owknows]

2 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I would hope not because he's hitting .223!   

Your hopes are fulfilled.

He's hitting .155 since the start of June

Edited June 22, 2023 by owknows

[Tony-OH]

4 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

I don't disagree with this - but you had to watch the interview, the reaction to the reporter when Frazier was brought up.  I'm pretty good at recognizing lip service, lord knows we get lots of practice with that with Elias.  Hyder loves him some Adam Frazier.

I do think Hyde gets a little too caught up with Veteranosity but I also don't think Hyde changes much from the lineup he's provided by sig's computer outside of injury, sickness, or other concerns that must be evaluated between himself and the trainers. 

So he can love himself some Frazier, and I'm sure he does, afterall this is a guy who loved himself so Odor when it was clear to everyone he was a sub replacement level player last year.

But does he really?  Mean, how do we really know? I just think Hyde is going to speak positively about all of his players, especially ones that are not doing well statistically because he's protecting the brand overall. Afterall, he's certainly not going to say, "Sig's computer keeps spitting out Frazier as my best second base option against right-handers but I think he belongs on the bench."

Soundbytes are worth about as much as a fan wants to read into them. 

 

[Tony-OH]

9 minutes ago, owknows said:

Your hopes are fulfilled.

He's hitting .155 since the start of June

I think you misread what I was quoting. I wasn't hoping for Frazier to fail at all.

[HelenaEngineer]

52 minutes ago, LA2 said:

I question throwing raw rookies into the breach against superior or hot competition, i.e. just the type of situation in which we might expect a Frazier, Mateo, or Urías to rise to the occasion either or both offensively and defensively. Rutschman's first month, Henderson's first months this season, Stowers this season, Vavra in general were not improvements.

The handling of Hicks and O'Hearn, among other decisions, tells me the FO knows what it's doing. It could, after all, be playing Mateo and Frazier this much to give them opportunities for further hot streaks that raise their trade value. One never knows.

Rutschman's first month performance was practically Ruthian in comparison to what Mateo has done vs RHP since May 1.

[Brooks The Great]

58 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:

No, that wasn't the context.

Hyde had mentioned how in the past against TB he hadn't had Cano and Bautista to close those types of games out.  A reporter (not sure who) also mentioned how he didn't have Frazier as a leader on the field in the past, and Hyde went on to sing is praises effusively.  It wasn't a "vote of confidence" context.  

Ultimately Elias will make the move, but I assure you Hyde has no intention of moving on from Frazier.

Thanks for the clarification. Hyde may have no intention now, but he's a player-first guy who's overly loyal to mediocre veterans, like a lot of other below average-to-poor managers (such as Buck Showalter, who recently had Tommy Hunter give away a game because Tommy's "one of my guys").

If Frazier continues to hit below .200 for the next couple weeks, I really do think a move will be made. I don't think Elias is incompetent. The fact Frazier has actually been worse than Mateo since around June 1st is pretty mind-boggling. Mateo is straight up one of the worst everyday hitters in MLB going back to last season. That's damning for Frazier.

I've made my hatred for the Frazier signing clear. Right after the signing, during spring training, and all during the season, even when Frazier was hot and lucking into some home runs. Same with McKenna - even got called out by some regular posters when McKenna was in the middle of a hot streak and I still called him out as a terrible player who shouldn't be on the team.

A lot of the times the eye test for talent and basic analysis of metrics over a couple seasons can give you a good idea if a player can be productive. If I can see Frazier's lack of value and skills, Elias can absolutely see it. And I think Elias will know deep down that he made an overpay, but he made it to have a cushion and not to put pressure on his prospects. But now those prospects are clearly ready to contribute. So I think the change with Frazier will eventually happen, even though it never happened with Odor last season.

Edited June 22, 2023 by Brooks The Great

[Baltimorecuse]

23 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I would hope not because he's hitting .223!   

That thousandth place gets me every time.  

[owknows]

27 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

I think you misread what I was quoting. I wasn't hoping for Frazier to fail at all.

I assumed you were saying the expectations for Frazier were higher than .223 (relative to the whopping .230 quoted)

I was being sarcastic.

Edited June 22, 2023 by owknows

[Orioles Jim]

21 hours ago, Tony-OH said:

Holy snikees batman, I never realized Odor was actually outperforming Frazier with the bat. 

Frazier has had some nice timely hits this year and honestly would be a good bench guy. High leverage abilities along with his ability to make contact or get the runner over or just drive a ball deep enough to move a guy is valuable late in games.

Saying that, he should not be the everyday second baseman on a contending team. Personally I'm ready for an infield that includes Ortiz at SS and Westburg at 2B, but I know it's not going to happen. So I'll take Urias with everyday PAs at 2B again, and put Frazier and Mateo in the bench. Frazier can fill in when Henderson, or Urias needs a day off. 

It is time. 

Odor is actually right on par with Machado in terms of triple slash line(!):

Machado: 301/421/722

Odor: 310/405/715

Holy snikees indeed!!!

 

[sportsfan8703]

Remember when everyone wanted to play Vavra over Odor?  Well that happened the night that Stowers hit that walk off. Vavra failed to turn to crucial double plays. Odor was quickly brought in as a defensive replacement and played 2nd base until we were out of it. I think we did try Gunnar there a few times. 
 

Everyone is so caught up on the 8 million given to Frazier, but not the 5 given to Givens. Also, 8 million is kind of the going rate for a starting second baseman. 
 

45% of the way through the season and he still catches flak. It’s not his fault that the O’s must not like Westburg’s defense.