Elias & Prospect Promotion

[Frobby]

9 minutes ago, casadeozo said:

In fairness the topic was “what is the rationale behind not promoting him” not should he be promoted.

My answer to your question is, heck if I know.  I could give you various speculative reasons, but I have no idea what their actual thinking is.   

[NCRaven]

4 hours ago, casadeozo said:

I think it’s more than that. The current team as it stands makes the playoffs. That said are we beating the Rangers or Rays in a series? 
 

making the playoffs would be awesome but I think everyone hopes for more than that.

I think the pitching will make a bigger difference than Westburg vs Frazier.

[Safelykept]

4 hours ago, glenn__davis said:

Not convinced if you made a "rest of the AL All Star team" that they'd have a better record than TB thus far.  Doesn't mean the O's shouldn't be trying to get better in every way that they can.

Frazier was never going to be dropped, not with an 8 million dollar price tag, which is why so many were against the acquisition in the first place.  That said, I think he's done exactly what Elias wanted.  He's raised the floor at 2B while lowering the ceiling.  The question is when do you think it's worth trying to push that ceiling up a bit.

They should be trying to get better but as posted yesterday in the Westburg thread 2nd base has been the most productive infield position if they want to get better start with 1st base, then SS

[Fiver6565]

5 hours ago, casadeozo said:

I think it’s more than that. The current team as it stands makes the playoffs. That said are we beating the Rangers or Rays in a series? 
 

making the playoffs would be awesome but I think everyone hopes for more than that.

We literally did the beat the Rays in the only series we’ve played with them so far. And we split 6 with the Rangers. Let’s not act like we can’t beat these teams. Yes improve the team and our odds by all means. But the team as is is capable of beating any other team in a series, there should be no question of that. 

[casadeozo]

1 hour ago, Fiver6565 said:

We literally did the beat the Rays in the only series we’ve played with them so far. And we split 6 with the Rangers. Let’s not act like we can’t beat these teams. Yes improve the team and our odds by all means. But the team as is is capable of beating any other team in a series, there should be no question of that. 

I think most unbiased fans and non fans would agree the Rays and the Rangers have a MUCH strong roster currently.

[connja]

I think that Elias really prioritizes culture and veteran presence.  Not that Westburg, Cowser or the like would negatively impact culture on their own, but he likes the balance we have with young guys, young vets and older vets.  

[oriolefan1035]

I want to see Westburg as much as anyone, but I think his near-term impact is being overstated. Gunnar and Adley were both sub-.800OPS before yesterday and they were both #1 overall prospects. Westburg is going to have an adjustment when he gets to MLB like anyone else. If we had a glaring need, I think he’d have been up already. But there’s no guarantee he’ll outdo what we already have. With that said, the chatter around him is getting louder. But at this point in the year and the fact that he isn’t an obvious upgrade (at least short-term), I absolutely think things like trade deadline and Super 2 factor in to pushing it off.

[deward]

11 minutes ago, oriolefan1035 said:

I want to see Westburg as much as anyone, but I think his near-term impact is being overstated. Gunnar and Adley were both sub-.800OPS before yesterday and they were both #1 overall prospects. Westburg is going to have an adjustment when he gets to MLB like anyone else. If we had a glaring need, I think he’d have been up already. But there’s no guarantee he’ll outdo what we already have. With that said, the chatter around him is getting louder. But at this point in the year and the fact that he isn’t an obvious upgrade (at least short-term), I absolutely think things like trade deadline and Super 2 factor in to pushing it off.

When do you think the appropriate time will be to let him go through that adjustment period? He's not going to get any more prepared for it.

[ChuckS]

26 minutes ago, deward said:

When do you think the appropriate time will be to let him go through that adjustment period? He's not going to get any more prepared for it.

Yeah, I don’t get these arguments that we can’t afford to allow prospects to struggle as they adjust to big league pitching because we are in the playoff race. 

By that reasoning, there will never be a good time to promote them since this team intends to compete for the postseason for the next 5 or 10 years. 

There is also no guarantee that they will require a significant adjustment period. Or it could come significantly later as the league figures out their weaknesses.

Lots of silly rationales to justify not getting better when you can. 

 

[Jagwar]

44 minutes ago, deward said:

When do you think the appropriate time will be to let him go through that adjustment period? He's not going to get any more prepared for it.

I think the O's have to give him a shot. There is no guarantee that he will be any better than whomever he replaces on the roster. But he has earned the opportunity. 

[NCRaven]

1 hour ago, Jagwar said:

I think the O's have to give him a shot. There is no guarantee that he will be any better than whomever he replaces on the roster. But he has earned the opportunity. 

I have little doubt that he will get a shot.  But, I still think it will be at or after the trade deadline.  Elias isn't just going to cut a useful player like Frazier or Urias.  I'm sure he'll clear space for players like Westburg and Cowser, but he'll do it in his own time.

[Baltimorecuse]

9 hours ago, Frobby said:

My answer to your question is, heck if I know.  I could give you various speculative reasons, but I have no idea what their actual thinking is.   

Elias never takes my calls, either.

[Brooks The Great]

7 hours ago, oriolefan1035 said:

I want to see Westburg as much as anyone, but I think his near-term impact is being overstated. Gunnar and Adley were both sub-.800OPS before yesterday and they were both #1 overall prospects. Westburg is going to have an adjustment when he gets to MLB like anyone else. If we had a glaring need, I think he’d have been up already. But there’s no guarantee he’ll outdo what we already have. With that said, the chatter around him is getting louder. But at this point in the year and the fact that he isn’t an obvious upgrade (at least short-term), I absolutely think things like trade deadline and Super 2 factor in to pushing it off.

So according to this line of thinking, the Orioles should never promote Westburg and Cowser.

The "prospects stuggle" and "we don't know that they'd be better than what we have" excuses for not promoting them are BS. Even if Westburg and Cowser have an adjustment period, the team should get that out of the way so that they're more ready to contribute in the playoffs. Not only that, but guys like Mountcastle and Mateo are simply not producing, and they are two of the worst hitters in the league in terms of reaching base.

Westburg and Cowser have a good chance to provide similar or better production to players like Mountcastle (Cowser starting in LF and pushing Hays to RF and Santander 1B/DH essentially makes Cowser a replacement for Mountcastle), Mateo, Frazier, Lester, O'Hearn, McCann (at DH), McKenna, and Hicks. Getting Westburg and Cowser (and Ortiz) up as soon as possible potentially makes the Orioles a better team immediately, and expedites the learning curve so that they can contribute to the team longer-term with more certainty.

[oriolefan1035]

2 hours ago, Brooks The Great said:

So according to this line of thinking, the Orioles should never promote Westburg and Cowser.

The "prospects stuggle" and "we don't know that they'd be better than what we have" excuses for not promoting them are BS. Even if Westburg and Cowser have an adjustment period, the team should get that out of the way so that they're more ready to contribute in the playoffs. Not only that, but guys like Mountcastle and Mateo are simply not producing, and they are two of the worst hitters in the league in terms of reaching base.

Westburg and Cowser have a good chance to provide similar or better production to players like Mountcastle (Cowser starting in LF and pushing Hays to RF and Santander 1B/DH essentially makes Cowser a replacement for Mountcastle), Mateo, Frazier, Lester, O'Hearn, McCann (at DH), McKenna, and Hicks. Getting Westburg and Cowser (and Ortiz) up as soon as possible potentially makes the Orioles a better team immediately, and expedites the learning curve so that they can contribute to the team longer-term with more certainty.

You can say it’s BS, but the question was why has Elias made it so these guys not on the Orioles already. Do you have a better explanation?

[Orioles0615]

The “tHeY WiLl StRugGle” excuse is just as stupid as the they will lose their trade value excuse