Could Elias call up our 19-year old SS phenom?

[ChosenOne21]

39 minutes ago, Malike said:

If Jeter played average defense he'd probably have been the greatest to play the position. Using DRS/UZR and Range Rating, Jeter was easily one of the worst defenders of his generation. He cost his team 152 runs from 2003 to 2014. Even when he was a "gold glover" his DRS in those years was -92. He was really bad at SS. His fielding % was good, but that's a terrible way to judge as we all know.

I know. Wild, man.

[banks703]

1 hour ago, ChosenOne21 said:

I know. Wild, man.

This was the era though, before defense was tracked with the advanced stuff. It was all anecdotal with the eye test. Jeter probably doesn’t stay at shortstop in today’s game. . . which is why I keep posting that I believe that Holliday ultimately ends up at 2B. 

Jester’s era of baseball saw Raffy win a gold glove with only like 30 games played. That’ll never happen again. An org (like the O’s) that has multiple better defensive options is not going to insert a weaker defender at a premier position. Not gonna happen. 

[Frobby]

On 8/13/2023 at 4:12 PM, Malike said:

If Jeter played average defense he'd probably have been the greatest to play the position. Using DRS/UZR and Range Rating, Jeter was easily one of the worst defenders of his generation. He cost his team 152 runs from 2003 to 2014. Even when he was a "gold glover" his DRS in those years was -92. He was really bad at SS. His fielding % was good, but that's a terrible way to judge as we all know.

By oWAR, Jeter was the 4th-best SS all time, behind Honus Wagner, ARod and Nap Lajoie.  So, he’s definitely way up there.   You can debate whether ARod should be considered a SS, and whether he should be DQ’d from consideration for using steroids, but just purely on hitting, he was a better offensive player than Jeter and it’s not particularly close.  

[OriolesMagic83]

On 8/13/2023 at 10:18 AM, sportsfan8703 said:

I agree with all of this, but we cannot fire money at trying to win a WS, and Elias didn’t want to mortgage the farm at the deadline, but the bullet we can fire is Jackson Holliday. If he’s our 9th place hitter, then we’re looking like the favorites in the AL. Fire the bullet. 

Jackson Holliday doesn't make us better than Houston.  Better pitching makes us better than Houston.  There's no guarantee that Jackson won't have a 2 month adjustment period to MLB where he hits like Mateo.  He hasn't had problems w/ hitting yet, but it's the majors and he's 19.  Some people think Holliday will be the best hitter in the majors the day he dons an Oriole uniform.  That's not realistic..

[sportsfan8703]

3 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:

Jackson Holliday doesn't make us better than Houston.  Better pitching makes us better than Houston.  There's no guarantee that Jackson won't have a 2 month adjustment period to MLB where he hits like Mateo.  He hasn't had problems w/ hitting yet, but it's the majors and he's 19.  Some people think Holliday will be the best hitter in the majors the day he dons an Oriole uniform.  That's not realistic..

We’re already better than Houston.  Their 5-9 is terrible. We really don’t even need Jackson. I’ve been talking it up since ST, but I’d rather roll with Urias, Gunnar, and Westburg/Frazier. If there is an injury then that is a different story. 

Cowser keeping his ROY status helps. He’s going to be in the top 3-5 favorites to start the year for the award. 

[Explosivo]

On 8/13/2023 at 5:21 PM, banks703 said:

This was the era though, before defense was tracked with the advanced stuff. It was all anecdotal with the eye test. Jeter probably doesn’t stay at shortstop in today’s game. . . which is why I keep posting that I believe that Holliday ultimately ends up at 2B. 

Jester’s era of baseball saw Raffy win a gold glove with only like 30 games played. That’ll never happen again. An org (like the O’s) that has multiple better defensive options is not going to insert a weaker defender at a premier position. Not gonna happen. 

I think the new era of baseball, at least the game the Orioles will play and have played, is a game of interchangeable parts. Gone are the days of set positions. Arrived are the days of every infielder can play and will play at least two different positions. Matchups are the key both start of game and against relief pitching in game. Those who can adapt to field the  strongest likelihood for success at any given moment of the game will be the team that raises their chance to win. Flexibility is everything. Look at Westy at second and third, Gunnar at short and third, Urias at well every position, Frazier at second and outfield, ohearn and first and outfield. Even Mateo at short and outfield. Flexibility is the key, competition is the key and talent is the key. For that I could see Jackson playing second and short. Heston playing first and right, and on and on it goes. Colby playing third and first. The point is, there are no “set” positions anymore and I think it’s the best way to play it considering our gobs of talent.

[AlbNYfan]

A lot of that depends on the player's willingness to move around and maintain a positive attitude.  That, I'm sure is difficult for some players that have been set at one "star" position for a while. They have to be reminded there is no "I" in team. To some degree their agents are going to sell that as a $$$$ maker for the client. They might have to create a 10th Gold Glove for rover.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, sportsfan8703 said:

We’re already better than Houston.  Their 5-9 is terrible.  

Altuve .948

Alvarez .946

Tucker .896

McCormick .885

Diaz .807

Bregman .770

By your math, two of those players must be terrible.  Which are they?

[LA2]

17 minutes ago, AlbNYfan said:

A lot of that depends on the player's willingness to move around and maintain a positive attitude.  That, I'm sure is difficult for some players that have been set at one "star" position for a while. They have to be reminded there is no "I" in team. To some degree their agents are going to sell that as a $$$$ maker for the client. They might have to create a 10th Gold Glove for rover.

That's why it's important that the O's are generally young.

[RVAOsFan]

1 hour ago, Explosivo said:

I think the new era of baseball, at least the game the Orioles will play and have played, is a game of interchangeable parts. Gone are the days of set positions. Arrived are the days of every infielder can play and will play at least two different positions. Matchups are the key both start of game and against relief pitching in game. Those who can adapt to field the  strongest likelihood for success at any given moment of the game will be the team that raises their chance to win. Flexibility is everything. Look at Westy at second and third, Gunnar at short and third, Urias at well every position, Frazier at second and outfield, ohearn and first and outfield. Even Mateo at short and outfield. Flexibility is the key, competition is the key and talent is the key. For that I could see Jackson playing second and short. Heston playing first and right, and on and on it goes. Colby playing third and first. The point is, there are no “set” positions anymore and I think it’s the best way to play it considering our gobs of talent.

I was just thinking the other night about how interchangeable our lineup can be.  I remember when Buck was the manager there was one lineup vs RHP and another vs LHP and they really were not that different.  You could turn on the game blindly a few innings in and already know who was standing in the on deck circle. 

[AlbNYfan]

53 minutes ago, LA2 said:

That's why it's important that the O's are generally young.

Young and for the most part have some speed...As much as most complain about RM...he hustles down the line and beats out throws or make plays closer than they should be...even AR has turned routine singles into doubles. They push the envelope quite a bit...sometimes get caught, but not often. They play smart, hard baseball for nine innings every night.

[Frobby]

1 hour ago, RVAOsFan said:

I was just thinking the other night about how interchangeable our lineup can be.  I remember when Buck was the manager there was one lineup vs RHP and another vs LHP and they really were not that different.  You could turn on the game blindly a few innings in and already know who was standing in the on deck circle. 

Especially in 2013.  Davis, Markakis and Jones played 160 games, Hardy 159, Manny 156, Wieters 148, McLouth 146.   That lineup was just about locked in cement.  

[Just Regular]

ATL today is pretty well locked too.     There was a MLB Now feature how they select for it, and deploy intentionally.

Its traveled with Freeman to the Dodgers, where he's continued getting his way despite I think Friedman being more inclined towards "everybody plays three positions, and the Decision Science of Rest maintains you are exhausting even your very good players if you play them 150+ games".

They might get through the year with just 11 guys at 100 PA.    D'Arnaud as a strong 2nd catcher for Bat 10 also seems to be a role they have prioritized paying and keeping.

Fingers crossed we get a series with them when all those guys are 175 games along.

[emmett16]

3 hours ago, Explosivo said:

I think the new era of baseball, at least the game the Orioles will play and have played, is a game of interchangeable parts. Gone are the days of set positions. Arrived are the days of every infielder can play and will play at least two different positions. Matchups are the key both start of game and against relief pitching in game. Those who can adapt to field the  strongest likelihood for success at any given moment of the game will be the team that raises their chance to win. Flexibility is everything. Look at Westy at second and third, Gunnar at short and third, Urias at well every position, Frazier at second and outfield, ohearn and first and outfield. Even Mateo at short and outfield. Flexibility is the key, competition is the key and talent is the key. For that I could see Jackson playing second and short. Heston playing first and right, and on and on it goes. Colby playing third and first. The point is, there are no “set” positions anymore and I think it’s the best way to play it considering our gobs of talent.

I completely agree.  Honestly, I can’t believe it’s taken this long.  Just goes to show the level of athletic increasing in MLB.  It’s amazing to see.  

[sportsfan8703]

3 hours ago, Frobby said:

Altuve .948

Alvarez .946

Tucker .896

McCormick .885

Diaz .807

Bregman .770

By your math, two of those players must be terrible.  Which are they?

Nobody outside of Altuve, Bregman, Tucker, and Yordan, scares me.  Diaz has a .522 OPS in high leverage situation.  McCormick exists.  So there's that.  So their 6-9 is terrible.  6-9 being Singleton, Dubon, etc....

Texas and Atlanta are the only two teams that worry me.  

Edited August 15, 2023 by sportsfan8703