White Sox Trade Possibilties

[Sports Guy]

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2023/11/white-sox-trade-rumors-luis-robert-dylan-cease.html
 

According to this, Robert is likely a no go, which isn’t entirely surprising although I think it’s a mistake by the White Sox.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Eloy is on the block because while the upside is there, the durability hasn’t been.

We have already talked about Cease a lot.

An intriguing name listed here is Michael Kopech. As a starter, Kopech has largely been a disaster. He has electric stuff. His statcsst numbers as a starter have been poor. His control isn’t as good and the K rate is so so.

However, in 2021, he was a reliever for most of the year. He had 44 appearances and only 4 starts.

In 2021, his K rate was over 13. His BB rate was just over 3. His statcast numbers were excellent, he missed a lot of bats and threw strikes at that was the best of his career.

This may be a way to get a guy with back end of the pen stuff/upside but not paying that price.  He is coming off a season where his ERA was almost 5.5 but his FIp was over 6. He should likely be an under the radar pick up and I’m guessing it won’t take a ton to do it. He made 2M this year and coming off of that year, he likely doesn’t see much of a raise.

[clapdiddy]

My theory about pitchers is that if Elias & team think they can "fix" them, they likely can.  If Kopech can be that guy, I agree he would be a nice target.    

[Sports Guy]

21 minutes ago, clapdiddy said:

My theory about pitchers is that if Elias & team think they can "fix" them, they likely can.  If Kopech can be that guy, I agree he would be a nice target.    

Moving him to the pen may be the only fix he needs too.  

[RZNJ]

Kopech is certainly intriguing as a bullpen piece so let’s look at this from the White Sox perspective.  He’s young, cheap, and talented, was not bad as a starter in 2022 but was awful in 2023.  Do you put him back in the bullpen, give him another chance in the rotation, or sell him at his lowest point?   Sure, at the right price maybe they move him but they aren’t going to give him away and they want young controllable players back.  I predict you offer Norby or a veteran and the new GM would say no.   

[HakunaSakata]

I just don't think Kopech is a very good pitcher (i.e., not much in the underlying numbers to get excited about). If Elias or Sig see  something that I don't and are able to get him on the cheat (sort of like the Marlins did with Luzardo a few years ago) I'd be fine with it, but I just don't see the White Sox giving up on hi yet given his age, contract, etc. Also, if the best they think he'll be is a bullpen I think it would be an absolute waste to trade for him. Just sign one or two of the guys I mentioned in another thread instead and save your prospects to make a run at a SP. 

We've already talked ad nauseam about Cease (it seems like there's 14 different threads about him) and I have zero interest in Eloy "Mr. Glass" Jimenez. 

[Sports Guy]

8 minutes ago, HakunaSakata said:

I just don't think Kopech is a very good pitcher (i.e., not much in the underlying numbers to get excited about). If Elias or Sig see  something that I don't and are able to get him on the cheat (sort of like the Marlins did with Luzardo a few years ago) I'd be fine with it, but I just don't see the White Sox giving up on hi yet given his age, contract, etc. Also, if the best they think he'll be is a bullpen I think it would be an absolute waste to trade for him. Just sign one or two of the guys I mentioned in another thread instead and save your prospects to make a run at a SP. 

We've already talked ad nauseam about Cease (it seems like there's 14 different threads about him) and I have zero interest in Eloy "Mr. Glass" Jimenez. 

The problem is, those high leverage relievers are going to get contracts they shouldn’t get and the Os won’t give them. 
 

And 2021 says you are wrong about him being good or not.  Even 2022 wasn’t bad either..not great but not bad.

They may choose to keep him or they may want too much for him. Both of those things are definitely possible. It just doesn’t make much sense for this team to keep him unless he has very little to no value.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Sports Guy

[btdart20]

I just peaked at their roster...

Vaughn - basically a bump vs. Mounty.

LouBob...

Colas - Is he better than Cowser/HK?  I don't think so.

Jimenez is a legit MOO.  And we could use the RHH balancing act.  Under control through 2024, but a 2025/2026 club option.  We could manage his time a bit more here with our depth and rookies needing integration (hopefully limiting his injury risk).  He's basically a DH though.  From what I recall, his injuries have generally been kinda fluky.  

Cease...

Kopech is probably infuriating for CHW fans.  A bit like Fuji.  He threw his CB a lot less in 2023 (3.8% vs. 11.1% in 2022) and his CH much more (7.4% vs. 1.2% in 2022).  Maybe the solution is as simple as his pitch mix.  I wouldn't be shocked if the CHW coaching staff just saw the below-average CB in isolation and didn't understand the impact from the hitter's POV as a check against other pitches.  As a starter, I think he needs another pitch.  As an RP, hopefully he can dip into another MPH on his FB as a difference-maker.  Breaking the 96-MPH marker helps everything play up.  Is the juice worth the squeeze?  

Luis Patino?  Trouble throwing strikes but maybe OPACY helps with the confidence.  A a RHP sinker-baller with a hoppy 4S too.  SL has been meh, but was a plus in 2020-21.  94-95 velo.  Low chase%.  TB traded him away for cash.  Probably a roster crunch thing, but it's notable that he didn't fit the Tampa RP factory mold.  Are we able to unlock something that Tampa couldn't?  His profile is similar to Perez but RHP and not quite as dramatic stuff.  4S and SI are very similar.  A better CH would go a long way IMO...

Gregory Santos - I doubt he's being shopped, but he'd be of interest to a ton of teams.  A few other arms fit this category to lesser degrees.

Looking at FG's Roster Resource page, they have some ranked pitching depth stacked at each level.  Quero (C), Montgomery (SS), and a few IF prospects.  I can see them looking for OF prospects and MLB-ready 2B/3B primarily.  Getz mentioned something about being more athletic/defensive, so I could see more interest in Ortiz and Cowser/Bradfield than Norby and Stowers/HK.  

They aren't shopping in the Santa, Mounty, or Mateo aisle.  They'll be perusing the prospect menu.

[Sports Guy]

Cowser, Ortiz, Norby and Max Wagner for Cease and Kopech.

 

Yes or no?

[HakunaSakata]

3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

The problem is, those high leverage relievers are going to get contracts they shouldn’t get and the Os won’t give them. 
 

And 2021 says you are wrong about him being good or not.  Even 2022 wasn’t bad either..not great but not bad.

They may choose to keep him or they may want too much for him. Both of those things are definitely possible. It just doesn’t make much sense for this team to keep him unless he has very little to no value.

2021 was a long time ago. I also watched Kopech pitch several times last season where he had absolutely no feel for the strike zone. And most of the time he was very hittable. A 27 year old pitcher who's been trending in the wrong direction for the past two years is probably just a year removed from being labeled a "failed prospect". 

As I said in another thread, I'm pretty confident  that we could sign RPs like M. Moore and Hudson to affortable 1 -2 year contracts. Even if the market's overally competitive I just don't see teams giving out longer term deals to older RPs or RPs with an injury history (in Hudson's case). If I'm wrong then Elias can pivot and look to address the need via trade, but I think he'd be foolish not to test the FA waters first. Yes our farm system is stacked, but we only have so many trade bullets in the chamber and I'd rather see us use them to acquire a SP as opposed to having to give out a five + year contract to land a really good one. I mean, look how that played out with Rodon last season.  

[Sports Guy]

It was only 2years ago, that’s not long ago and how he performed as a starter is largely irrelevant to how you would expect him to perform as a reliever. 
 

Good high leverage relievers, which the team needs, are not signing for small contracts..IE, the Os aren’t signing them and they would be right to not do it as well.

[interloper]

31 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Cowser, Ortiz, Norby and Max Wagner for Cease and Kopech.

 

Yes or no?

I think if Fuji can be had for Easton Lucas, you can get Kopech for something similar. Maybe Mateo plus a low-A flier. 

This feels like too much to me. Kopech doesn't add enough to a Cease package to warrant 4 top prospects. 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, interloper said:

I think if Fuji can be had for Easton Lucas, you can get Kopech for something similar. Maybe Mateo plus a low-A flier. 

This feels like too much to me. Kopech doesn't add enough to a Cease package to warrant 4 top prospects. 

Kopech has a lot more value than Fuji.

Thats not 4 top prospects unless your defintion of “top prospects” is different than most.

BTw, I would probably be on the side of that being a little high of an offer too but anything they do where they bring in quality and/or upside it’s going to be high.

[RZNJ]

44 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Cowser, Ortiz, Norby and Max Wagner for Cease and Kopech.

 

Yes or no?

Cowser and Ortiz for Cease seems doable.  You are basically offering Norby (as I predicted) and Wagner for Kopech.   I think it’s interesting but I bet our White Sox fan declines.  

[RZNJ]

18 minutes ago, interloper said:

I think if Fuji can be had for Easton Lucas, you can get Kopech for something similar. Maybe Mateo plus a low-A flier. 

This feels like too much to me. Kopech doesn't add enough to a Cease package to warrant 4 top prospects. 

Kopech pitched very well as a reliever.  Fuji did not.  No comparison unless you feel that Kopech can’t transition back.  He averaged 97 mph as a reliever but 95 with worse control as a starter.  A comparison to Hall is closer than a comparison to Fuji.

[Frobby]

Hopefully @Chicago White Soxwill pop on here SNS give us his/her two cents.