Cease vs everyone else

[RZNJ]

17 minutes ago, Orange said:

This trade was never going to happen until the last week of January any way you slice it. I said that in November.

Why did you just ask what the holdup was, then?

[Hank Scorpio]

3 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Not really.  I mean, bands like Ratt and Poison weren't trying to fool anyone into thinking they had some deep social commentary.  

What band worth their salt doesn't have some kind of social commentary 

[Moose Milligan]

8 minutes ago, RZNJ said:

Why did you just ask what the holdup was, then?

Kinda beat me to it.  That was funny.

[SemperFi]

1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:

Which is exactly why Getz isnt dropping his asking price right now, as he shouldn’t.

Sure to a certain extent the Orioles are already competing against a deadline package but Getz in waiting absorbs all the risk if there is an injury or the discount if he is 2023 Cease    

[Sports Guy]

Just now, SemperFi said:

Sure to a certain extent the Orioles are already competing against a deadline package but Getz in waiting absorbs all the risk if there is an injury or the discount if he is 2023 Cease    

 No question. I gotta think they move him but if the best offer isn’t good enough, I can understand not doing it.  

[CaptainRedbeard]

There’s more competition on trades with the big market teams also being buyers at the deadline, but there’s also more supply available. And certainly plenty of SP that will be available as rentals that aren’t available now. It cuts both ways. 

It’s risky for the White Sox to wait. It’s not the best outcome, but by comparison it’s less risky for the Orioles to sign Paxton or Ryu and then try again on Cease or someone else at the deadline. 

It doesn’t make sense for the Orioles to bid against nobody. Rosenthal said this, but you can’t really fault the Orioles if they refuse to do that and the White Sox hold Cease. The only quality SP that got traded this offseason are Glasnow and Sale, and they were never going to be options for the Orioles. The Reds are a small market with a good farm system with a lot of reason to be aggressive given their division and they also gave up on Cease and pivoted to Montas. It’s not just the big market teams that decided they don’t want to meet the White Sox’ asking price and moved on.

At this point I think the only things that could get either the White Sox or the Orioles to blink is (1) when Snell/Montgomery sign and the White Sox realize they’re not getting a better offer, or (2) when Paxton/Ryu/whoever sign and the Orioles feel their plan B options are dwindling. But because Paxton/Ryu/whoever else may also be waiting on Snell/Montgomery, and because the Orioles can also credibly just roll with the guys they got, I think it’s going to have to come from the White Sox. And at this point they’ve committed so hard to holding out for a big return that they’re just going to keep doing that. 

[Just Regular]

Its been a minute since James McCann was on the White Sox, but today he still stands 3rd among catchers having caught Cease 16 games (Yasmani 50 and Seby Zavala 31 in the lead).

Cease's OPS yielded by those catchers is 730 Grandal, 593 Zavala and 806 McCann.

[Sports Guy]

@Tony-OH any thoughts on this?

[Tony-OH]

44 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

@Tony-OH any thoughts on this?

Same thing that happened to Bradish which is why they had him go to the two-seam sinker. What I'd like to know is what was the EV and xWOBA was on those pitches? Baseball savant is very good, but it's missing tools like that. I imagine the organizations do have those breakdowns for each pitch. 

You wonder if the Orioles will do the same with Cease as they did with Bradish. Maybe that's why they are going after him "so hard" despite the mediocre numbers last year.

[Sports Guy]

4 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

Same thing that happened to Bradish which is why they had him go to the two-seam sinker. What I'd like to know is what was the EV and xWOBA was on those pitches? Baseball savant is very good, but it's missing tools like that. I imagine the organizations do have those breakdowns for each pitch. 

You wonder if the Orioles will do the same with Cease as they did with Bradish. Maybe that's why they are going after him "so hard" despite the mediocre numbers last year.

How likely is it that they keep the 4 seamer and are able to improve on it?  Is that a “simple correction”?

[Sports Guy]

At this point, some comic relief is always a good thing.

 

This was an actual trade suggestion on the WS board:

 

BOS if they are willing to deal from their top 3 or a quantity package from BAL including Beavers, Bradfield, Horvath, Povich, McDermott and another prospect. 

 

LOL!  These people are delusional and a slave to prospect rankings.  Just a 6 for 1 deal, no biggie.

At least @Chicago White Sox was smart enough to say that’s crazy. 

[Tony-OH]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

How likely is it that they keep the 4 seamer and are able to improve on it?  Is that a “simple correction”?

I'd imagine each pitcher is different, but Bradish was able to make the adjustment pretty quickly and went from a guy who's fastball was a concern to one of the top starter's in the AL. 

The White Sox are not exactly known as a cutting edge organization so maybe he doesn't know how to tweak the fastball to get more arm side sink to his fastball vs the occasional cut. Maybe he tried it and it doesn't work? I don't know enough about his stuff besides what we can see in baseball savant and don't know enough about his makeup or willingness to learn. 

He may worry about an arm injury with a tweak and not be willing to try a change. It's hard to say. Bradish did it early enough in his career that he was willing to try and Bradish by all accounts is a hard worker who is always trying to better his craft.

[Tony-OH]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

At this point, some comic relief is always a good thing.

 

This was an actual trade suggestion on the WS board:

 

BOS if they are willing to deal from their top 3 or a quantity package from BAL including Beavers, Bradfield, Horvath, Povich, McDermott and another prospect. 

 

LOL!  These people are delusional and a slave to prospect rankings.  Just a 6 for 1 deal, no biggie.

At least @Chicago White Sox was smart enough to say that’s crazy. 

Fans always over value their players being traded and under value the prospects getting back in return. Cease is not going to get them that type of quantity of quality prospects.

They want six guys, they can have Stowers, Bright, Vavra, Haskin, Cook and Armbruster and like it!

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

Fans always over value their players being traded and under value the prospects getting back in return. Cease is not going to get them that type of quantity of quality prospects.

They want six guys, they can have Stowers, Bright, Vavra, Haskin, Cook and Armbruster and like it!

I actually think Stowers is a really nice player for them.

the WS fans keep clamoring about left handed power bats. Stowers is the forgotten man and grossly underrated at this point.

A deal of Westburg, Beavers, Stowers and Povich is very solid for them. 

[Jim'sKid26]

16 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

How likely is it that they keep the 4 seamer and are able to improve on it?  Is that a “simple correction”?

So Bradish actually throws his 2SFB (Sinker) harder than he throws his 4SFB; 94.4 mph vs. 95.0 mph. Thats a little unusual.

Cease did throw about 30 sinkers in 2022 (he didn't throw any in 2023) and threw it about the same speed 4SFB= 96.8 vs 2SFB= 96.5. Of note, his 4SFB in 2023 was 95.6 mph. Seems like he could throw the Sinker if he wanted to.