Bloomberg: Carlyle Group/David Rubenstein In Talks To Purchase Orioles

[Orioles5258]

8 minutes ago, ThomasTomasz said:

Lots of thoughts here obviously.  Bloomberg is a legit reporting place for something like this, though one would think that Rosenthal would have eyes on it too, and be the guy to break the story.  

Either way, I think there is a lot of fire to this rumor.  All of the things we hear about the Battery style area not being able to happen around the current stadium, for whatever reason letting the lease go this far, not expanding the payroll, the MASN dispute looking like the Orioles are going to owe a lot of money to the Nationals……..there is a lot to point towards a sale. 

John deserves a lot of credit for getting Mike Elias in here.  Peter never, ever would have done many of the things that Elias did.  He would have continued to allocate all of the resources to the MLB payroll to try and win that way.  However, I think we all know that there is a happy medium between the payrolls that we had now, versus the payrolls that we had in the middle of last decade, and John is just not spending it.  We also know that the infrastructure changes that Elias made were 110% for the better, but that does not even come close to accounting for the discrepancy between current payroll, and payroll from 2016-17. 

However, I just feel that the amount of “strikes” that the team is taking off the field is probably taking it’s toll on the family, and this is something they are probably looking to divest themselves from at this point.  

I also wonder if Rubenstein is in talks to buy some of the Angelos family shares, but come in on the short side so that Georgia retains majority control and John is still the “control person.”  

You make a good point, they could sell Rubenstein minority interest with agreement to sell the majority stake when PA dies which locks this in and avoids the big capital gains estate tax charge. Bisciotti  had a similar agreement where he came in as minority owner with an agreement to buy out the Modells at a later time. 

[Moose Milligan]

1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:

 

JA in accordance with his father’s legacy has run this franchise not just into the ground, but under it. His actions over the last year were almost sabotaging. Look at EVERYTHING that he said and did! Nothing was in any way remotely helpful or positive.

 

As much as I'd not like to agree with @Billy F-Face3about a lot of things, I do agree with his above post that JA can take credit for hiring Elias...and allowing Elias to do pretty much everything he wanted to do, especially establishing an international scouting presence which is something that didn't exist under his dad.

If anyone wants to be honest here (I question that sometimes) when it comes to JA, it's usually something like "Yeah, he hired Elias, whatever," and they move on to whatever issue JA has ensnared himself in at the moment, probably something like giving a stupid interview like he did time and time again throughout 2023.  

But if Elias is one of the best things that's happened to this franchise, then JA needs to be recognized for hiring him.  And retaining him thus far.  Hiring and retaining good people isn't easy in any industry, especially in one like Major League Baseball.  @Bemorewinsyou can't look at the last two seasons we've had, the amount of talent we have in the system and say that he's run this franchise into the ground.  That's being intentionally obtuse.

I get it, a lot of people here are hammers and all they see is nails, especially when it comes to all things Angelos.  It's easy to bash them at every given turn because they've given us a lot of material to work with over the years but with JA it hasn't all been bad.  He nailed the most important part of his stewardship of the franchise, everyone should be able to agree on that.

If that makes me sound like some Angelos apologist as I'm sure @Tony-OHwill label me, well, so be it.  I've been called worse.  But I don't think I wrote any lies above.

That doesn't mean I don't think that JA is a tone deaf trouser-snake cheapskate, I absolutely do think those things.  He's terrible in front of the media, a microphone and a camera are his worst enemies.  His cries about having to raise prices if they want to spend money on talent are stupid.  He does strike me as someone who was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple, which is obnoxious.  While I give him a lot of credit for hiring Elias, I am absolutely thrilled at the prospect of the Orioles being sold and the Angelos family going away like a fart in the wind.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Moose Milligan

[Frobby]

10 minutes ago, ChicagoTerp said:

Side note - Is there anywhere in these 19 pages that gives credit to the poster from a few weeks back who started the thread that this may be in the works?

It was @Tryptaminewho posted that, and you are right that he should be acknowledged.   I was really skeptical about it because the original report (which @Tryptaminewas relaying from a Mets fan board) said the Carlyle Group was buying the team.  That’s not permissible under MLB rules.  But David Rubenstein is the co-chair and co-founder of Carlyle, so close enough!   

The other part of the rumor was that the original offer was $1.1 bb but that it was raised to $1.4 bb after Peter Angelos objected to selling.   That also didn’t seem credible, since Peter appears to have not been mentally competent over the last 5 years.   

In any event, we’ll see where this goes.  The original thread is here:

 

[Tony-OH]

Just caught up with this thread and I have a few thoughts/comments.

1. As I stated earlier, I was told this months ago by two separate people who seemed to have good information, but were connected through several degrees of separation. I don't really pass on stuff like that anymore because there is no use starting rumors before I have real concrete info. Clearly something coming from Bloomburg holds more weight than something from Orioleshangout.com. I'm glad it hit though.

2. My thoughts are anything that removes the Angelos family from ownership has to be a netgain for Orioles fans. I will give John Angelos credit for hiring Mike Elias and turning this franchise around into something to be proud of, but his ridiculous comments and emergence in the media suddenly during a year of success showed me that an Angelos can't help but to take center stage when things are going well. It was just like when Peter Angelos came out of hibernation when the Orioles where heading to the ALCS in 2014. I was in that lockeroom and there were players and coaches going, "That's the first time I've ever seen him."

3. I've seen a lot of stuff thrown around about David Rubenstein , and I certainly understand the poster on here who lost his job to his Carlyle Group being jaded, but at the end of the day, there is no Billionaire out there who is not connected with greasing palms or not associated with the federal government in some way. Once you get to that level you have to play the game. Unless you are Elon Musk and so rich and so successful that you just tell everyone who doesn't like you, including other Billionaires, to "Go F themselves." Lol... Yes, I have a man crush on him!

4. As for David Rubenstein running the Orioles just to make money and thinking he will pinch pennies, I just don't see it. Billionaires have big egos and few want to own a losing team. Billionaires don't buy teams to make money. They buy professional sports team for the glory of being an owner on a team that wins the championship. 

5. As for Elias, why would Rubenstein not want to keep Elias and his crew? If anything, he's more likely to pay what it will take to keep him and his crew together for many years. My biggest concern with Elias has been him suddenly realizing he will not be able to spend enough to keep his top players that he drafted, signed and developed. With Bloomberg, I can't imagine him allowing a Gunnar or Jackson Holliday to walk over money if they are still impact players.

6. Personally, this would make my Holiday season if this somehow came to fruition before the year was out. Give me a Billionaire over a guy who's done nothing but ride on his father's coattails any day. 

[Tony-OH]

12 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

If that makes me sound like some Angelos apologist as I'm sure @Tony-OHwill label me, well, so be it.  I've been called worse.  But I don't think I wrote any lies above.

WTF? How did I get thrown into this? I've always given credit to John Angelos for hiring Elias as well. Why would I label you an Angelos Apologist for that? 

Such an odd statement.

[wse120372]

9 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

As much as I'd not like to agree with @Billy F-Face3about a lot of things, I do agree with his above post that JA can take credit for hiring Elias...and allowing Elias to do pretty much everything he wanted to do, especially establishing an international scouting presence which is something that didn't exist under his dad.

If anyone wants to be honest here (I question that sometimes) when it comes to JA, it's usually something like "Yeah, he hired Elias, whatever," and they move on to whatever issue JA has ensnared himself in at the moment, probably something like giving a stupid interview like he did time and time again throughout 2023.  

But if Elias is one of the best things that's happened to this franchise, then JA needs to be recognized for hiring him.  And retaining him thus far.  Hiring and retaining good people isn't easy in any industry, especially in one like Major League Baseball.  @Bemorewinsyou can't look at the last two seasons we've had, the amount of talent we have in the system and say that he's run this franchise into the ground.  That's being intentionally obtuse.

I get it, a lot of people here are hammers and all they see is nails, especially when it comes to all things Angelos.  It's easy to bash them at every given turn because they've given us a lot of material to work with over the years but with JA it hasn't all been bad.  He nailed the most important part of his stewardship of the franchise, everyone should be able to agree on that.

If that makes me sound like some Angelos apologist as I'm sure @Tony-OHwill label me, well, so be it.  I've been called worse.  But I don't think I wrote any lies above.

That doesn't mean I don't think that JA is a tone deaf trouser-snake cheapskate, I absolutely do think those things.  He's terrible in front of the media, a microphone and a camera are his worst enemies.  His cries about having to raise prices if they want to spend money on talent are stupid.  He does strike me as someone who was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple, which is obnoxious.  While I give him a lot of credit for hiring Elias, I am absolutely thrilled at the prospect of the Orioles being sold and the Angelos family going away like a fart in the wind.

This is dead on. 

However, this situation is like having a team change its manager when it's out of the rebuild phase. Having an owner than truly doesn't need to support the family on the Orioles cash flow should be enough to get us to a level where we can have a chance to keep some of our own players for the long term. Owning an MLB team is a big boy proposition. The Angelos family just isn't in that league anymore. 

[ChicagoTerp]

Ok so it's settled.

-There's no such thing as a supervillain sports owner.

-Humans are complex creatures, and can almost never be placed in the "bucket" you want to put them in.

-JA has done some very good things for this franchise and should be recognized for that.

-That doesn't mean fans can't be excited about the prospect of moving on to a new ownership chapter, after 3 decades of arguably more bad news than good.

[Ohfan67]

9 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

 

3. I've seen a lot of stuff thrown around about Bloomberg, and I certainly understand the poster on here who lost his job to his Carlyle Group being jaded, but at the end of the day, there is no Billionaire out there who is not connected with greasing palms or not associated with the federal government in some way. Once you get to that level you have to play the game. Unless you are Elon Musk and so rich and so successful that you just tell everyone who doesn't like you, including other Billionaires, to "Go F themselves." Lol... Yes, I have a man crush on him!

 

 

Much of Elon Musk’s wealth is directly tied to federal and state governments. Space X alone has received more than 15 billion in federal funding since the early 2000s. Electric cars wouldn’t be a thing if it wasn’t for federal subsidies and incentives and investments from liberal states, primarily California. Musk has benefited greatly from government spending and regulations that created the “private” space industry and the market and infrastructure for electric cars. 

[Hank Scorpio]

30 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

As much as I'd not like to agree with @Billy F-Face3about a lot of things, I do agree with his above post that JA can take credit for hiring Elias...and allowing Elias to do pretty much everything he wanted to do, especially establishing an international scouting presence which is something that didn't exist under his dad.

If anyone wants to be honest here (I question that sometimes) when it comes to JA, it's usually something like "Yeah, he hired Elias, whatever," and they move on to whatever issue JA has ensnared himself in at the moment, probably something like giving a stupid interview like he did time and time again throughout 2023.  

But if Elias is one of the best things that's happened to this franchise, then JA needs to be recognized for hiring him.  And retaining him thus far.  Hiring and retaining good people isn't easy in any industry, especially in one like Major League Baseball.  @Bemorewinsyou can't look at the last two seasons we've had, the amount of talent we have in the system and say that he's run this franchise into the ground.  That's being intentionally obtuse.

I get it, a lot of people here are hammers and all they see is nails, especially when it comes to all things Angelos.  It's easy to bash them at every given turn because they've given us a lot of material to work with over the years but with JA it hasn't all been bad.  He nailed the most important part of his stewardship of the franchise, everyone should be able to agree on that.

If that makes me sound like some Angelos apologist as I'm sure @Tony-OHwill label me, well, so be it.  I've been called worse.  But I don't think I wrote any lies above.

That doesn't mean I don't think that JA is a tone deaf trouser-snake cheapskate, I absolutely do think those things.  He's terrible in front of the media, a microphone and a camera are his worst enemies.  His cries about having to raise prices if they want to spend money on talent are stupid.  He does strike me as someone who was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple, which is obnoxious.  While I give him a lot of credit for hiring Elias, I am absolutely thrilled at the prospect of the Orioles being sold and the Angelos family going away like a fart in the wind.

Yeah this isn't some binary thing where he's either good or bad. 

If John would have just kept his big mouth shut, nobody would have the level of ire they do. He hired excellent people and as far as we know has allowed them to do their jobs. 

Big mouth notwithstanding, the organization is in a stronger baseball ops position than it's been in my adult life. He deserves some credit for that. It's just a really difficult thing for some people to say due to the generally atrocious last 30 years & his poor discretion at crying poor to the media.

The best thing any owner/ownership group can do is shut the hell up. Some people can't help themselves I guess. 

[Hank Scorpio]

15 minutes ago, ChicagoTerp said:

Ok so it's settled.

-There's no such thing as a supervillain sports owner.

-Humans are complex creatures, and can almost never be placed in the "bucket" you want to put them in.

-JA has done some very good things for this franchise and should be recognized for that.

-That doesn't mean fans can't be excited about the prospect of moving on to a new ownership chapter, after 3 decades of arguably more bad news than good.

Oh I'm not sure it's arguable 

[Bemorewins]

36 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

As much as I'd not like to agree with @Billy F-Face3about a lot of things, I do agree with his above post that JA can take credit for hiring Elias...and allowing Elias to do pretty much everything he wanted to do, especially establishing an international scouting presence which is something that didn't exist under his dad.

If anyone wants to be honest here (I question that sometimes) when it comes to JA, it's usually something like "Yeah, he hired Elias, whatever," and they move on to whatever issue JA has ensnared himself in at the moment, probably something like giving a stupid interview like he did time and time again throughout 2023.  

But if Elias is one of the best things that's happened to this franchise, then JA needs to be recognized for hiring him.  And retaining him thus far.  Hiring and retaining good people isn't easy in any industry, especially in one like Major League Baseball.  @Bemorewinsyou can't look at the last two seasons we've had, the amount of talent we have in the system and say that he's run this franchise into the ground.  That's being intentionally obtuse.

I get it, a lot of people here are hammers and all they see is nails, especially when it comes to all things Angelos.  It's easy to bash them at every given turn because they've given us a lot of material to work with over the years but with JA it hasn't all been bad.  He nailed the most important part of his stewardship of the franchise, everyone should be able to agree on that.

If that makes me sound like some Angelos apologist as I'm sure @Tony-OHwill label me, well, so be it.  I've been called worse.  But I don't think I wrote any lies above.

That doesn't mean I don't think that JA is a tone deaf trouser-snake cheapskate, I absolutely do think those things.  He's terrible in front of the media, a microphone and a camera are his worst enemies.  His cries about having to raise prices if they want to spend money on talent are stupid.  He does strike me as someone who was born on third base and thinks he hit a triple, which is obnoxious.  While I give him a lot of credit for hiring Elias, I am absolutely thrilled at the prospect of the Orioles being sold and the Angelos family going away like a fart in the wind.

I agree that John Angelos deserves credit for hiring Elias. But at the same time, while that was great to get us through the rebuild successfully, his “never spend at all costs” approach became a serious impediment to the franchises success now that the rebuild was over and done with. 

No one can tell me that Elias “lift off comments” in ANY WAY mesh with last offseason’s tepid approach to FA and improving the team or this deadlines moves with bringing in the likes of Fujinama and Flaherty. The 2 don’t mesh. All those moves were moves made with spending as little as possible with winning/competing being very much secondary. And that was while the team had the second lowest payroll in the sport with one of the best teams (records on the field).

Yes John Angelos got us an Elias. But literally everything that he did once the team got good was to stand in the way of the team/org/Elias’ success. Like everything! Every word spoken and action taken was awful.

[Hank Scorpio]

35 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

4. As for Bloomberg running the Orioles just to make money and thinking he will pinch pennies, I just don't see it. Billionaires have big egos and few want to own a losing team. Billionaires don't buy teams to make money. They buy professional sports team for the glory of being an owner on a team that wins the championship. 

 

I'll bet Bisciotti's net worth has increased 20% since he bought the Ravens. 

The NFL is a different animal.

[Tony-OH]

19 minutes ago, Ohfan67 said:

Much of Elon Musk’s wealth is directly tied to federal and state governments. Space X alone has received more than 15 billion in federal funding since the early 2000s. Electric cars wouldn’t be a thing if it wasn’t for federal subsidies and incentives and investments from liberal states, primarily California. Musk has benefited greatly from government spending and regulations that created the “private” space industry and the market and infrastructure for electric cars. 

Your point? I literally said ALL Billionaires take advantage of government opportunities.

[Hank Scorpio]

1 minute ago, Tony-OH said:

Your point? I literally said ALL Billionaires take advantage of government opportunities.

I enjoy billionaires who aren't afraid to tell other billionaires to go F themselves. More of them need to be checked.

[Tony-OH]

2 minutes ago, Hank Scorpio said:

I'll bet Bisciotti's net worth has increased 20% since he bought the Ravens. 

The NFL is a different animal.

I didn't say owners don't want to make more money, but the vast majority are in it for the fame and ego boost because they are already Billionaires.