Jackson Holliday spring training watch

[backwardsk]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

He made some comment about “keeping him warm” at SS.

Interesting fact: in 2023, the average team had more chances at 2B (674) than SS (617).   3B was distantly behind at 422.   

Would that have to do with the elimination of the shift? In 2022 and prior, you’d have SS and 3B getting chances on the right side.

Edited February 25 by backwardsk

[Just Regular]

36 minutes ago, Frobby said:

Well, I hadn’t realized until today that 2B get more chances than SS.  I’d assumed the opposite.  

All I’ve said in the past is that if a player was clearly the best hitter in the draft, I wouldn’t hold back on picking him just because he was projected to play 2B rather than SS.  It came up two years ago when some evaluators were rating Termarr Johnson as an 80 bat, but felt he wouldn’t stick at SS.  I don’t think I was commenting so much on the defensive importance of 2B, more on how advantageous it is to have a 2B who’s a good hitter.   
 

That research makes me wonder if a Club's typical number of 5-4-3 double plays could get as high as 50-60.    I think those pivots get counted as chances and shortstops don't get similar ones except 3-6-3's, of which I believe Ryan Mountcastle has about two in his career.

B-Ref shows about 115 grounded double plays/team last year, so 50's probably a too high guess.    Its probably more like 80-85 up the middle, 30-35 around the horn.

[Just Regular]

Two AL Central teams with talented players in something somewhat like this situation.

Andres Gimenez is a quiet star and took the Platinum Glove last year.    He was a SS coming up the Mets system, the Guardians got him and Amed Rosario for Lindor.   Gimenez moved over to 2B and has been great - the Guardians are somewhat having open tryouts at SS this spring, but it looks like Gimenez isn't part of that mix.

Twins' Brooks Lee was a college shortstop in the early 2022 1-1 conversations before Holliday and Druw Jones separated.     He was all SS in the Minors last year, has a Carlos Correa-Royce Lewis stack in front of him, and could end up at 2B if Edouard Julien can't field it.

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Frobby said:

I want to be on record as saying I think the defensive importance of 2B seems pretty underrated around here.  As I just mentioned, 2B actually handles more chances than SS.   And while many of those chances involve easier throws, there are plenty of tough plays where the 2B is throwing while his momentum is heading away from 1B, or across his body when charging a chopper.

I wonder if anyone tracks the average exit velo of a ball hit to each position.

[Orioles West]

1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:

I want to be on the record as saying I don’t care what position he plays, just as long as he plays it well. 

I think this is the best take on the infield position debate thus far. 

Ultimately, I am glad Henderson, Holliday and Westburg all prefer the coveted SS spot and yet, are talented enough and willing to play other positions to help the team. 

[Can_of_corn]

18 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

I wonder if anyone tracks the average exit velo of a ball hit to each position.

I'm sure teams have programs that track it.

 

[Frobby]

43 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

That research makes me wonder if a Club's typical number of 5-4-3 double plays could get as high as 50-60.    I think those pivots get counted as chances and shortstops don't get similar ones except 3-6-3's, of which I believe Ryan Mountcastle has about two in his career.

B-Ref shows about 115 grounded double plays/team last year, so 50's probably a too high guess.    Its probably more like 80-85 up the middle, 30-35 around the horn.

We don’t have to guess!  For 2023:

643 - 991

463 - 768

543 - 697

363 - 168

163 - 71

63 - 351

43 - 168

Total for SS: 2,349

Total for 2B: 2,624

Source: BB-ref pages for team “advanced fielding” by position.

This gives me another chance to mention Gunnar’s penchant for the 6-3 DP.  Team average was 11.7 per team, Gunnar had 13 by himself despite starting only 64 games at SS and subbing in another 19.   

 

 

[Sports Guy]

7 minutes ago, Frobby said:

We don’t have to guess!  For 2023:

643 - 991

463 - 768

543 - 697

363 - 168

163 - 71

63 - 351

43 - 168

Total for SS: 2,349

Total for 2B: 2,624

Source: BB-ref pages for team “advanced fielding” by position.

This gives me another chance to mention Gunnar’s penchant for the 6-3 DP.  Team average was 11.7 per team, Gunnar had 13 by himself despite starting only 64 games at SS and subbing in another 19.   

 

 

Would you want to give the ball to Frazier?  

[Tony-OH]

20 hours ago, Sports Guy said:

The difference in his lifting numbers is pretty staggering.  Kid clearly is willing to work. That is huge. 

Curious, and perhaps I missed a post, but where did you get his "lifting numbers" from? Was that something Holliday told in an interview?

[banks703]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

We don’t have to guess!  For 2023:

643 - 991

463 - 768

543 - 697

363 - 168

163 - 71

63 - 351

43 - 168

Total for SS: 2,349

Total for 2B: 2,624

Source: BB-ref pages for team “advanced fielding” by position.

This gives me another chance to mention Gunnar’s penchant for the 6-3 DP.  Team average was 11.7 per team, Gunnar had 13 by himself despite starting only 64 games at SS and subbing in another 19.   

 

 

During the season I brought up Gunnar’s penchant for taking the DP himself and was really impressed when you hit me with these numbers (both that he lead the league in like half the innings played and that you were able to find that stat). Still impressed with both. 

[Sports Guy]

1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:

Curious, and perhaps I missed a post, but where did you get his "lifting numbers" from? Was that something Holliday told in an interview?

It was a tweet from either last week or early this week.  Huge jumps in his bench press, dead lift and squat.  I think it was posted in this thread.

Edited February 25 by Sports Guy

[Moose Milligan]

4 hours ago, Orioles West said:

I think this is the best take on the infield position debate thus far. 

 

I know it is. 
 

[Since1984]

I continue to remember this quote from JH’s signing presser on his goal to become a MLB player….short version 2 years “or less”. Skip to the 12 minute mark. A weird presser because of the COVID transition, compared to today’s and prior years interviews..

Things change, obviously, and I am getting acquainted to the Wong thread too. Looking at this current situation, I do not see JH on the opening day roster, unless there is another significant trade. 

I will not be surprised if there is a significant swap trade at this point, with so many options. The Orioles want veteran and prospect balance.

To be difficult, what would Jackson Holliday retrieve in a trade? 
 

https://youtu.be/hJ0KILIko6g?si=HSXBPoL3lO4LyIoB

[Aristotelian]

On 2/25/2024 at 10:07 AM, Frobby said:

I want to be on record as saying I think the defensive importance of 2B seems pretty underrated around here.  As I just mentioned, 2B actually handles more chances than SS.   And while many of those chances involve easier throws, there are plenty of tough plays where the 2B is throwing while his momentum is heading away from 1B, or across his body when charging a chopper.

I agree with this. It's easier to be a passable 2B but a great 2B can still be a game changer, either with the glove (Jimenez), the bat (Carew), or both (Alomar). Carew might be an interesting comp for Holliday now that I think about it.

I wonder if Jeter would have been more valuable as a plus 2B as opposed to mediocre (at best) SS.

[survivedc]

3 hours ago, Since1984 said:

I continue to remember this quote from JH’s signing presser on his goal to become a MLB player….short version 2 years “or less”. Skip to the 12 minute mark. A weird presser because of the COVID transition, compared to today’s and prior years interviews..

Things change, obviously, and I am getting acquainted to the Wong thread too. Looking at this current situation, I do not see JH on the opening day roster, unless there is another significant trade. 

I will not be surprised if there is a significant swap trade at this point, with so many options. The Orioles want veteran and prospect balance.

To be difficult, what would Jackson Holliday retrieve in a trade? 
 

https://youtu.be/hJ0KILIko6g?si=HSXBPoL3lO4LyIoB

Has a #1 been traded, beside Moncada? Who is the 2024 Chris Sale?