Holliday called up!

[emmett16]

6 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Probably true.  But hoisting up a long rambling quote from Elias as proof that it wasn't about service time when no GM would ever mention service time isn't winning that argument.

Getting back towards the conspiracy theories from last night, I'm wondering if Westburg is hurt or something.

 

If someone were hurt and they are gaming his service time, they bring up someone else. 

[dystopia]

6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Correct but at this point, not waiting a few extra days really doesn’t make any sense.

One extra year of Holliday is worth more than a pick.

I do think this should avoid any super 2 stuff though, so that could be part of the motivation.

 

No guarantee he doesn’t earn that year back unless he stays down until like July, at which point you only net 3 months of service time and potentially cost the team playoff standing. 

[Moose Milligan]

Just now, DirtyBird said:

Glad you are comfortable being wrong in the face of firm evidence

Well he's not going into a night game at Yankee Stadium tonight.  

Who's wrong now?

[survivedc]

1 hour ago, Rbiggs2525 said:

This is my expectation. The Orioles will want to save face that Jackson was not ready and bat him ninth. I don’t think it sends a good message a prospect wasn’t ready and 2 weeks later batting lead off.

This is such a cynical idea, that they’d put him somewhere in the order out of personal pride. First of all, Hyde makes the lineup card, not Elias. Second of all, how many rookies come up and are immediately slotted into a top of the order spot? Adley and Gunnar both batted 6th their first game and Manny was 9th.

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, DirtyBird said:

"I think a plan of having him play AAA and playing 2B five, sic days in a row to start the season is going to do a lot, both for his confidence and ours that he's ready to go into the AL East, in Yankee Stadium, in a night game."

Also, he faced LHP in 6 AAA games.

Also, our MLB team showed that they couldn't hit LHP for crap anyway, so Holliday couldn't possibly be worse.

If you actually read the quote, the substance adds up to a call up right about now.

That is no sample size to determine anything.  

And what’s the move?  If Westburg (or someone else..maybe Kemp got hurt and that’s why he was removed yesterday) isn’t hurt, what’s the move? Are you going to already eat the salary of Kemp?  I doubt that.

You aren’t cutting Urias or Mateo. 

All of it is just very strange.   Sending him down because you are are facing lefties early on seems very lame. Saying he needs more time at second and giving him 5 or 6 starts there and saying that’s enough, seems lame.

None of it really adds up.

Which is why I wonder about an extension.

[dystopia]

53 minutes ago, NedFromYork said:

I believe there is a date by which if you release a free agent player that you signed to a MLB contract that you only owe them like 20%.  Is that still in existence?  For Kemp.

I thought MLB contracts were guaranteed. 

[Sports Guy]

3 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

If someone were hurt and they are gaming his service time, they bring up someone else. 

No, they clearly weren’t gaming service time. That seemed to be what they were doing but obviously they weren’t unless an injury changed their mind, like GRod last year.

[Can_of_corn]

1 minute ago, dystopia said:

I thought MLB contracts were guaranteed. 

Free agent deals are.  Arbitration deals aren't.

Guy from the Giants got cut this spring.

[Moose Milligan]

2 minutes ago, emmett16 said:

If someone were hurt and they are gaming his service time, they bring up someone else. 

Maybe.  @Sports Guy's post about avoiding Super 2 might make some sense.

But to your point, they couldn't really bring up another player if Westburg is hurt.  I mean, they could, but they'd have a real, real hard time explaining it to Holliday, his dad and the fanbase.  

If Matt Holliday wasn't pissed before (I disagreed with SG, I didn't think he was that upset), that would be sure to piss him off and rightly so.  They couldn't call up someone else with JH raking in AAA and make some lame excuse as to why they didn't call up JH with a straight face.

[DirtyBird]

Just now, Sports Guy said:

That is no sample size to determine anything.  

And what’s the move?  If Westburg (or someone else..maybe Kemp got hurt and that’s why he was removed yesterday) isn’t hurt, what’s the move? Are you going to already eat the salary of Kemp?  I doubt that.

You aren’t cutting Urias or Mateo. 

All of it is just very strange.   Sending him down because you are are facing lefties early on seems very lame. Saying he needs more time at second and giving him 5 or 6 starts there and saying that’s enough, seems lame.

None of it really adds up.

Which is why I wonder about an extension.

I think Mateo was the logical replacement for Kemp in yesterday's game situation - another reason I don't think it is a Westburg injury.

We had a decent lead, Mateo has been giving us good AB's in his limited opportunities. He has earned some more chances. And, moving forward, I think he is essentially our #2 2B on the depth chart.

[jamalshw]

12 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Correct but at this point, not waiting a few extra days really doesn’t make any sense.

One extra year of Holliday is worth more than a pick.

I do think this should avoid any super 2 stuff though, so that could be part of the motivation.

 

I kinda wonder if we hear about an extension for him (at least buying out the arb years) given they did call him up a few days early. 

[dystopia]

Just now, Moose Milligan said:

Maybe.  @Sports Guy's post about avoiding Super 2 might make some sense.

But to your point, they couldn't really bring up another player if Westburg is hurt.  I mean, they could, but they'd have a real, real hard time explaining it to Holliday, his dad and the fanbase.  

If Matt Holliday wasn't pissed before (I disagreed with SG, I didn't think he was that upset), that would be sure to piss him off and rightly so.  They couldn't call up someone else with JH raking in AAA and make some lame excuse as to why they didn't call up JH with a straight face.

We’re one day away from the service time date. They could have just played with a short bench today and DL Westburg tomorrow, if that is indeed what’s going on. 

[DirtyBird]

20 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

 No GM would admit that it's about service control.  Ever.  

He still hasn't faced a lot of Triple-A quality pitching, two or three weeks later.

But he did face a quality AAA lefty yesterday, which would be reason to push the promotion back 1 day from what would have been a more logical spot based on the team's schedules.

[RZNJ]

15 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Probably true.  But hoisting up a long rambling quote from Elias as proof that it wasn't about service time when no GM would ever mention service time isn't winning that argument.

Getting back towards the conspiracy theories from last night, I'm wondering if Westburg is hurt or something.

 

There’s no need for any other proof.  If it was about service time, Holliday wouldn’t be getting called up now.   Speaking of conspiracy theories, what is the Westburg injury?    

[Frobby]

2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Correct but at this point, not waiting a few extra days really doesn’t make any sense.

One extra year of Holliday is worth more than a pick.

I do think this should avoid any super 2 stuff though, so that could be part of the motivation.

 

I guess they think that (1) Holliday has a decent chance of winning ROY and earning them a draft pick, (2) if they held him back a few more days, he’d still have a good chance to finish top 2 for ROY and get a full year of service time anyway, and (3) holding him back long enough to seriously hurt his chances of finishing top 2 for ROY wasn’t worth it in terms of losing possible wins on the field.  

I know Holliday didn’t have a ton of PA vs. LHP at Norfolk (11), but the fact that he performed well against them matters.  The big concern expressed when camp broke was that he’d struck out 9 times in 15 PA vs. LHP.   Well, he struck out 0 times in 11 PA in Norfolk.   So, does that mean he’ll thrive against major league lefties?  No, but it definitely ameliorates some of the concern from this spring.  He’s also had more reps at 2B, even if they haven’t all gone well.   

You also have to consider that our offense has been sputtering a bit and we’ve gotten very little production at 2B so far (.632 OPS).   Perhaps Holliday doesn’t get called up if the offense is hitting on all cylinders and we’re getting a .750-.800 OPS at 2B.   

I know this: I’d rather be rooting for Holliday to win the ROY than rooting for him to NOT finish in the top 2.   So that’s where we are now.   Let’s goooooooo!!!