An evening spent with Scott Boras

[Frobby]

8 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/41130330/giants-3b-matt-chapman-reach-6-year-extension-worth-151m
 

Pre FA extension.  Helps make up the failure of the offseason for Chapman.

Pretty much shows that the “player option” strategy Boras adopted when the big long term contracts weren’t there for players who had warts last winter has worked well. 

Here’s an interesting recap on Fangraphs recapping what’s happened with the “Boras Four” (Bellinger, Chapman, Montgomery, Snell).

 

[interloper]

23 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/41130330/giants-3b-matt-chapman-reach-6-year-extension-worth-151m
 

Pre FA extension.  Helps make up the failure of the offseason for Chapman.

6 years for a 31 year old 3rd baseman. He's very good but those last 2-3 years will probably be a doozy. 

[Sports Guy]

18 minutes ago, interloper said:

6 years for a 31 year old 3rd baseman. He's very good but those last 2-3 years will probably be a doozy. 

Oh it’s an incredibly dumb contract for the Giants but they are quickly becoming a really bad franchise imo.

[OriolesMagic83]

11 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Oh it’s an incredibly dumb contract for the Giants but they are quickly becoming a really bad franchise imo.

I would much rather sign Westburg for $151 million.  The O's could probably get him for a lot longer than than w/ pre arbitration years.  I hope the O's spend their money on kicking up their own players.  The back end of that deal will be horrible.

[Just Regular]

The Jordan Montgomery and Blake Snell back and forth recently was interesting.

I think once it gets past Walt Whitman's evening stroll in the mid-1800's, episode 1 of Ken Burns only takes a few minutes to get to one of the things making baseball America that contest between management and labor, amplified to today's revenues and payrolls.

Boras is a strong player rep about as good at procuring wealth as the lords of the realm.    For a few years Farhan has missed target after target so it isn't that surprising his winner's curse looks a bit suboptimal at first blush.

Matt Chapman has just gotten to the player's turn in the system.   He is supposed to be paid high on the back years by its design.

We're lucky this year Hal Steinbrenner has stayed "responsibly" trying to get value out of DJ LeMahieu's back years.

[geschinger]

18 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

Matt Chapman has just gotten to the player's turn in the system.   He is supposed to be paid high on the back years by its design.

Agree, but I also hope the Orioles exploit the flawed design of this system.  It's not conducive to winning consistently.  I'm hoping Elias has a similar approach to what Luhnow took in Hou of refusing to play by those rules.  It isn't necessary.  Spend on players in their prime, be willing to spend on older but still productive players as long as it is a short-term deal, and walk away from players that require long-term contracts that pay them into their mid to late 30s or even 40s.

[SemperFi]

On 7/1/2024 at 7:35 PM, Roy Firestone said:

I think his contract is worth at least a BILLION dollars, not 700 million.

That means players like rising superstar Gunnar Henderson and pitcher Corbin Burnes, both Boras clients, are looking at eventually hundreds of million dollars in salaries and all kinds of additional revenue streams.

Hi Roy,

You likely won't remember me but I hired you ~20 years ago to do a show for a large consumer products company-I never got the personal opportunity to thank you for that and the class and patience you showed in sharing your time after the show with my colleagues. 

There are certainly new revenue streams coming available but Ohtani is an outlier.  Very few teams in MLB had the ability to leverage him like the Dodgers, and with LA it's not ticket sales like SF needed-its about corporate income.

Gunnar and Burnes will get big paydays but they don't have the demographic appeal to generate the kind of revenue Ohtani provides.  

[Just Regular]

Some of it is still TBD depending how he does the next 10 odd Octobers, but at fullest extent I think I think Ohtani might be on the podium with Babe and Jackie as the most important players in baseball's history.

It will be a market inefficiency the commissioner has to deal with if all of Japan's greatest players want to give the Dodgers a deal.

[Gurgi]

I used to buy into hating the agents and being pissed at the players over money.  But I finally realize in my older age that these players have a very limited shelf life and they NEED to cash in because most wont get a second chance.  And its not just for the players but for their kids and wives and second wives and third wives.  They all need to cash in as much as possible in their limited opportunity to be free agent.  

I also no longer get mad at the team for not signing a guy I want.  No one can force the player to stay in Baltimore.  I dont even get mad when the Orioles wont pony up the amount the other big market teams will.  What can you do?  

Maybe this is just having gotten used to the Angelos Family and the way they did things?  Will be very interested in how Rubenstein does business this offseason.  If we really start spending money it will shock me.  I would love a long term deal with Gunnar and possibly Jackson.  Adley I would not sign long term.  I dont think he is going to be worth it.  

[Yossarian]

Question regarding Boras -  were you able to see his horns?  Or was he able to hide them under his hair?

[Gentile4]

I don't have a problem with Boras or the players; I have a problem with the owners. Other leagues have figured out how to insure the top players make crazy money while still keeping a competitive balance throughout the sport.

[Can_of_corn]

17 minutes ago, Gentile4 said:

I don't have a problem with Boras or the players; I have a problem with the owners. Other leagues have figured out how to insure the top players make crazy money while still keeping a competitive balance throughout the sport.

I'm not sold that the answers the other owners have found are better.

What seems to be happening in a lot of cases is that the top 5% get a much larger share of the pie than we see in MLB.

The NFL doesn't even have guaranteed contracts.

I also don't think the competitive balance in MLB is worse than you see in other sports.

I'm going to go check the big 4 and count up how many different teams won titles since 2000.  (Sorry if I make an error)

MLB: 16

NFL: 13

NHL: 14

NBA: 11

 

Edited September 5 by Can_of_corn

[EddeeEddee]

The problem is not the amount of money the players are making as a whole.  The problem is the amount of money individual star players are making and the number of guaranteed years. 

Ohtani is a special case because of his star power in Japan and Korea, but in general these massive contracts are not only rarely worth it, they make it too difficult to pay for other quality free agents at other positions.

I think the solution is make none of these contracts guaranteed.  If the player fails to make the team at the beginning of a season or is hurt for a certain amount of time then the contract should become cancelable, so long as that same money is used to pay for other players.

 

[Can_of_corn]

12 minutes ago, EddeeEddee said:

The problem is not the amount of money the players are making as a whole.  The problem is the amount of money individual star players are making and the number of guaranteed years. 

Ohtani is a special case because of his star power in Japan and Korea, but in general these massive contracts are not only rarely worth it, they make it too difficult to pay for other quality free agents at other positions.

I think the solution is make none of these contracts guaranteed.  If the player fails to make the team at the beginning of a season or is hurt for a certain amount of time then the contract should become cancelable, so long as that same money is used to pay for other players.

 

I don't see why it's a problem.

How is it a "problem" that Anthony Rendon is getting paid way too much money for what he contributes to the team?

It sucks for the Angels but it's not an issue for the league as a whole.

How much did Jordan Poole make last year to be the worst player in the league ($27,455,357)?

Edited September 5 by Can_of_corn

[EddeeEddee]

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

I don't see why it's a problem.

How is it a "problem" that Anthony Rendon is getting paid way too much money for what he contributes to the team?

It sucks for the Angels but it's not an issue for the league as a whole.

It sucks for the Orioles too except his name is Chris Davis.  It's a problem across the league.  Now of course no one is forcing Peter Angelos to pay Chris Davis way more money than he is worth, but the only reason these contracts are guaranteed is because the players' union is so powerful.  This is not a problem in the NFL because NFL contracts are not guaranteed.  

The power of the union helps make agents like Boras so powerful -- not necessarily the marketplace per se.  I'm not anti-union at all, quite the opposite.  But I think the purpose of unions should be to help the lower paid employees rise more toward the middle and secure pensions, etc.  The purpose of the union should not be to make the star players -- whose contracts way overvalue their performance -- make even more money.