8/11 @Tampa Bay

[Roy Firestone]

6 minutes ago, SteveA said:

And some people wait for every decision that doesn't work and automatically say that Hyde is an idiot because of it without even considering alternatives.   

Always amazes me when a struggling or pitch limited pitcher tames us. But then, all the Rays pitchers did. Another disappointment from our offense and crummy pen.

[Moose Milligan]

4 minutes ago, HowAboutThat said:

I wasn’t talking about Kimbrel, but about Perez replacing Suarez.

Argument still holds. You’re not whining if Perez gets out clean. 

[Dunk35]

1 minute ago, accinfo said:

That comment is too stupid even for the game thread.

What sense did it make to take out Suarez? And then to throw Kimbrel in a leverage situation when he hadnt pitched in 5 days? He conceded without waving the white flag. 
 

Granted, offense has got to score more than 1 run. 

[Billy F-Face3]

Tough loss. Pete Fairbanks, good... Craig Kimbrel, not so good.

And to top off the disappointment, I don't like tomboyish sounding voices in my baseball games. If ya know what I mean, ya know.

[HowAboutThat]

11 minutes ago, SteveA said:

And some people wait for every decision that doesn't work and automatically say that Hyde is an idiot because of it without even considering alternatives.   

That’s true, but a bit disingenuous. Often, the complaining is completely valid and starts before the decision is made, because Hyde is predictable.

The only problem I saw was needlessly pulling Suarez  one out too soon. There was no reason to do so and every reason not to.

Suarez wasn’t losing control or seeing a huge increase in hard contact, was well under his season high pitch count( he has thrown into the 90s multiple times)

Perez was brought in for a favorable matchup, but Hyde should have known that Cash would instantly pinch hit, which eliminated any matchup benefit, and the first pitch was a hit. The next batter also got a hit.

Who do you think removing Suarez was a good idea? What are the benefits to doing so, in your view? Not being snarky, would really like to know.

Edited August 11 by HowAboutThat

[bpilktree67]

3 minutes ago, Dunk35 said:

What sense did it make to take out Suarez? And then to throw Kimbrel in a leverage situation when he hadnt pitched in 5 days? He conceded without waving the white flag. 
 

Granted, offense has got to score more than 1 run. 

His options in the 8th was Kimbrel, Smith, Akins, Soto, Baker.  I think about all those are about the same.  We have 2 guys you can count on then it a guess who is on that given day.  

[SteveA]

12 minutes ago, Moshagge3 said:

3-3 road trip 

5-5

[Moshagge3]

3 minutes ago, SteveA said:

5-5

Yep, you're right. For some reason I thought there was a home series between Cleveland and Toronto.

Edited August 11 by Moshagge3

[HowAboutThat]

9 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:

Argument still holds. You’re not whining if Perez gets out clean. 

We’ve talked about this; sometimes a dumb decision works, and a good decision doesn’t, but that doesn’t change the quality of the decision.

As I said in a previous comment, I would’ve been fine with taking out Suarez at the beginning of the inning, or leaving him in. And I was actually expecting him to come out.
But once the decision was made to leave him in, there was no reason to remove him. He was performing fine, with no sign of fatigue.

So there was no reason to bring him out.

As I said, in another comment, even if Suarez had finished the inning, Perez might have coughed up the run in the next inning, that’s just a function of not having enough quality options. And that’s another issue.

But no, once Suarez was allowed to start the beginning, he should’ve been allowed to finish it, and that would be true, even if Perez had gotten that out, and of course… He didn’t, until he gave up the first of two..

[bpilktree67]

5 minutes ago, HowAboutThat said:

That’s true, but a bit disingenuous. Often, the complaining is completely valid and starts before the decision is made, because Hyde is predictable.

The only problem I saw was needlessly pulling Suarez  one out too soon. There was no reason to do so and every reason not to.

Suarez wasn’t losing control or seeing a huge increase in hard contact, was well under his season high pitch count( he has thrown into the 90s multiple times)

Perez was brought in for a favorable matchup, but Hyde should have known that Cash would instantly pinch hit, which eliminated any matchup benefit, and the first pitch was a hit. The next batter also got a hit.

Who do you think removing Suarez was a good idea? What are the benefits to doing so, in your view? Not being snarky, would really like to know.

Well under? He was at 95 pitches his season high is 97.  It wasn’t like he was at 80.  We have had about 7 starters go past 100.  I was surprised he even came out for the 7th.  They have a number of pitches they are gonna let pitchers go as he said.  You bring a guy in to get 1 out that guys has to do it.  The same thing on Tuesday when Soto couldn’t get 1 out when he came on with 2 outs.  

[HowAboutThat]

2 minutes ago, bpilktree67 said:

Well under? He was at 95 pitches his season high is 97.  It wasn’t like he was at 80.  We have had about 7 starters go past 100.  I was surprised he even came out for the 7th.  They have a number of pitches they are gonna let pitchers go as he said.  You bring a guy in to get 1 out that guys has to do it.  The same thing on Tuesday when Soto couldn’t get 1 out when he came on with 2 outs.  

He started the inning at 84 pitches. 95 is still under his season high, and his two previous batters only took 11 pitches. His efficiency wasn’t slipping, so he was good for a few more. So, pitch count wasn’t an issue.

I was much more annoyed when Suarez wasn’t allowed to come out for another inning on Tuesday, he was at 73 pitches after five innings and was certainly good for another inning

Edited August 11 by HowAboutThat

[Wavetrapper]

1 minute ago, HowAboutThat said:

He started the inning at 84 pitches. 95 is still under his season high, and his two previous batters only took 11 pitches. He was good for a few more.

Hyde doesn’t like to stick with the hot hand or the hot bat.  
I can’t come up with a adjective for him that fits

Amazing doesn’t work as it denotes something positive 

No one in their right mind puts Kimbrel in that spot 

[SteveA]

5 minutes ago, HowAboutThat said:

That’s true, but a bit disingenuous. Often, the complaining is completely valid and starts before the decision is made, because Hyde is predictable.

The only problem I saw was needlessly pulling Suarez  one out too soon. There was no reason to do so and every reason not to.

Suarez wasn’t losing control or seeing a huge increase in hard contact, was well under his season high pitch count( he has thrown into the 90s multiple times)

Perez was brought in for a favorable matchup, but Hyde should have known that Cash would instantly pinch hit, which eliminated any matchup benefit, and the first pitch was a hit. The next batter also got a hit.

Who do you think removing Suarez was a good idea? What are the benefits to doing so, in your view? Not being snarky, would really like to know.

Actually today the complaining didn't start before the decision was made, or even after it was made today.

After the 6th, a bunch of people said that they thought Suarez was done for the day.   I think someone said they might let him have one or two batters in the 7th, but that someone should be ready in the pen.    And there wasn't a lot of complaining when he was taken out.

He had thrown 94 pitches.   His high all year was 97, so committing to one more batter would have been most likely putting him higher than he has gone all year.   AND he was on 4 days rest, the most pitches he had ever thrown on 4 days rest this year was 89, so he was already well beyond that.   The few times he has gone 90+ this year, he was on 5 or 6 days rest.   And don't forget that before he pitched Tuesday, he was pitching on just 3 days rest after a long bullpen stint the previous Friday.   And I know  you were upset he got taken out when he did Tuesday.   If Hyde had followed your desieres last Tuesday, Suarez probably would have not been able to last even as long as he did today.

I think we got every bit as much as we could possibly have hoped for our ot Suarez.   A guy that most people on this board don't think is good enough to be in a contender's rotaiton.  We squeezed 20 outs out of him by having him throw as many pitches on normal rest as he has all year.

That left 7 outs for the bullpen, and considering who we have and who is available, Hyde pretty much used the best guys he had at his disposal to get the 7 outs.   And those guys failed miserably.   If he had brought in Baker or Soto or Akin and they had screwed up everyone would be saying he was an idiot for that.   I would guess the he was saving Burch Smith for the 9th.

We got beat.   We got beat because our offense was held to 1 run for the first time since before the break.   We got beat because two guys out of the pen failed miserably at their job.   Yet there are tons of posts about how horrible Hyde is.   It's way over the top.

 

[SteveA]

19 minutes ago, bpilktree67 said:

His options in the 8th was Kimbrel, Smith, Akins, Soto, Baker.  I think about all those are about the same.  We have 2 guys you can count on then it a guess who is on that given day.  

I suspect that Burch Smith was going to be our closer if we made it to the 9th with a lead.

He has pitched pretty well, but the fact that we were likely to use a guy who was released 8 weeks ago by the Marlins as our closer, tells you all you need to know about the state of our bullpen.   Elias didn't do a great job putting it together, and two of our most effective relievers are on the IL.

[SteveA]

7 minutes ago, Wavetrapper said:

Hyde doesn’t like to stick with the hot hand or the hot bat.  
I can’t come up with a adjective for him that fits

Amazing doesn’t work as it denotes something positive 

No one in their right mind puts Kimbrel in that spot 

WHO did you want to use there?   Akin?  Soto?  Baker?   Burch Smith?   If you use Smith there, who did you want to use in the 9th?

If you are going to criticize the manager, at least have a pair of balls and say what you would have done.    Saying "no one in their right mind puts Kimbrel in that spot" is utterly useless criticixm unless you say who you would have had in there.   And you know what?   If he had brought in Baiker instead and they had hit him and gotten a run, you would probably be calling Hyde an idiot for using Baker and saying no one should be using Baker there.