Timing and thoughts on Cowser's hustle play

[SemperFi]

25 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

The way I see it if it was faster to slide sprinters would slide.

True but sprinters cannot reach to cross a line otherwise they would, they have to break it with their torso.  A baserunner can stretch 3-4 feet on a head first slide while not slowing appreciably as noted in the Statcast article.

[Mooreisbetter27]

25 minutes ago, Fiver6565 said:

I hear what you’re saying but it feels to me the potential slide injury is much less severe than any potential collision injury. And I don’t think Singleton is a very good first baseman (as evidenced by the fact that this play even happened) so he’d be even less likely to have agility and wherewithal to tag the base while avoiding a collision. 

Not like Cowser was really analyzing that as he ran down the first base line “okay Singleton is about to plow into me… but if I slide he could step on my hand or I could jam it, want to make sure I don’t injure myself…”. 

Im sure he was just thinking, there’s a huge guy barreling at me, must avoid. And he said as much in the interview.

But this play was one of the reasons I love him. Plays all out every play. 

[waroriole]

Nice slide Cowser, don’t ever f’ing do it again. 

[Fiver6565]

4 minutes ago, Mooreisbetter27 said:

Not like Cowser was really analyzing that as he ran down the first base line “okay Singleton is about to plow into me… but if I slide he could step on my hand or I could jam it, want to make sure I don’t injure myself…”. 

Im sure he was just thinking, there’s a huge guy barreling at me, must avoid. And he said as much in the interview.

But this play was one of the reasons I love him. Plays all out every play. 

Yeah I didn’t mean to imply all that went through Cowsers head in real time, of course not. I’m sure it’s 99% instinctual. Just pointing out that ultimately the decision made sense for various reasons. 

[Mooreisbetter27]

1 minute ago, Fiver6565 said:

Yeah I didn’t mean to imply all that went through Cowsers head in real time, of course not. I’m sure it’s 99% instinctual. Just pointing out that ultimately the decision made sense for various reasons. 

Honestly, my post really shoulda been more directed at Harp6… I ended up quoting you because you had quoted him haha. I basically agree with you, just poorly used quotes. 

[SemperFi]

35 minutes ago, Number5 said:

Your legs propel you when you run.  Sliding slows you down.  Clearly.

Well there is a huge difference in sliding into into 2B and the corresponding slowing and drag v. slding head first into 2b.  It's not sliding that slows you, it's the drag and there is less drag at 1b as you are first airborne with no resistance and then reaching.

I neglected to add the link from Statcast-below.  I always thought running through the bag was faster, that's the way I was coached and the way I then coached.  However after reading the attached I don't think that is necessarily true.

https://www.mlb.com/news/statcast-looks-at-running-vs-slide-into-first-c251420158

[Roy Firestone]

It was just one moment in just one game, but if the Orioles somehow right the ship and the team goes on to some sort of success, they should give out(or sell) tee shirts that say "Never give up" or "Head first Orioles". I know I'd love to have one of those.

[Number5]

5 minutes ago, SemperFi said:

you are first airborne with no resistance and then reaching.

There is also no propulsion.  Coasting is not faster than accelerating.  This is obvious.

[Frobby]

3 hours ago, Too Tall said:

Now and then a play defines a game. This was such a play. The Hustling Cow did it.

“The Hustling Cow” sounds like a good name for a dive bar.  Love it!

Edited August 25 by Frobby

[BRobinsonfan]

4 hours ago, Frobby said:

@Filmstudy, do you have thoughts on how much time Cowser’s slide cost him?   3.73 is an exceptional time to 1B.  I thick the slide caught Singleton off guard and certainly prevented him from reaching out to tag Cowser while he was running towards the bag.  I’m not so sure Cowser would have been safe without the headfirst slide.  

That's the way it looked to me too.  

[SemperFi]

1 hour ago, Number5 said:

There is also no propulsion.  Coasting is not faster than accelerating.  This is obvious.

"Those against sliding into first argue, reasonably, that when your feet stop pumping, you lose propulsion and then incur friction -- i.e., slow down -- upon the rest of your body scraping against the ground. Those in favor of the practice don't disagree with that, but they argue that the ability to get horizontal and reach out with your arms ahead of your center of mass make up for that fact. The correct answer is probably in between, in that diving or sliding may be as fast if you do it perfectly -- except it's rarely done perfectly. "

"Now if we just left it there, you might think we've proven that sliding into first is indisputably slower and no one could argue against that. If we're talking about simple running speed, that's basically true; it's difficult to accelerate without your feet. As you can see in the diagrams, Gardner's speed while sliding is dropping from slightly over 30 feet per second to more like 21 feet per second, and dropping rapidly as he gains friction. 
But as we said, the argument to the contrary is that if done properly, the ability to reach out with your hands can make up for that, and Gardner has been used as an example in other studies of someone good at doing just that".

https://www.mlb.com/news/statcast-looks-at-running-vs-slide-into-first-c251420158

Please read the above for reference.

I am not advocating sliding head first-I've been spiked before, and I'm not sure it makes you faster as Gardner advocates but done correctly (as per the attached) it's not appreciably slower which was the original question.

Gardner's argument being that having to only go 86 feet instead of 90 while sliding over roughly 5-6 feet is preferable.  Remember that his speed at the bag is not 0-when he hits the bag slding he is going 2/3 of his sprint speed, and it doesn't depreciate all at one.

Edited August 25 by SemperFi

[Jagwar]

3 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:

You don't think they would rip up their bodies to win a meet, or even a gold medal?

No. I don't. 

EDIT: And... is it the fingers that matter for a runner crossing the finish line? Or their chest/shoulders?

Edited August 25 by Jagwar

[SemperFi]

4 hours ago, Jagwar said:

Pure uneducated speculation on my part, and injecting sloppy physics into the discussion. Wondering if when you're running your body is vertically lined up with your center of gravity. If you go into a head first slide your center of gravity hasn't changed, but now the front of your body extends out 2-3-4 feet in front of you. So if you time your slide correctly, you could reach the 1B bag faster depending on how well you time the slide and how much the ground slows you down. 

Does that idea have any merit or am I full of soup?

That is Gardner's premise which is then supported by the author- with the caveat when done correctly as @RZNJ notes.

[Oriole40]

Cowser is now and has been for a while one of my top 2 or 3 favorites. Kind of reminds me of BJ Surhoff for 100% + hustle.

[OriolesMagic83]

2 hours ago, Frobby said:

“The Hustling Cow” sounds like a good name for a dive bar.  Love it!

Sliding Cow