Should Rubenstein relieve Mike Elias of his duties?

[Aristotelian]

Just now, LookitsPuck said:

You can most definitely judge it now. Trades can be looked at various ways. For Rogers, you can look at it for this year. In that regard, it is a major miss. Not only did he pitch poorly, but he’s now in the minors, the Orioles are without Norby, and it’s incredibly likely he won’t throw a major league pitch the rest of the year.

Now for 2025 and beyond? Yeah, we can’t say anything about that. But for this year, the year that is still going…it’s a miss.

The whole point of the trade was that Rogers has two more years of team control. Well, at least 80% of the point of the trade was for '25 and beyond. 

[Just Regular]

43 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

But you don’t know that the WS want 2 older prospects for him. You don’t know if they like those players. You also don’t know if the Os like Fedde or buy into what he would be for the rest of the year (he hasn’t been that good btw) or if he can be good in 2025.

In fact I think we know they exactly didn't, considering all the A-ball kids they went for in the Cease and Fedde deals.

Would we have wanted Fedde for Estrada and Sosa?

Getz probably doesn't want Kjerstad or Beavers much if Crochet is revisited this winter.

[Tony-OH]

1 minute ago, DrinkinWithFermi said:

Judging the Rogers trade right now is really, really, REALLY silly.

It's like judging a draft pick based on 15 games in Low A in his draft year.

Whether or not it was a good trade won't be known for awhile yet.

While true in principle, what we do know already that it has not helped this team get better within the last month. What we can say is that Rogers stuff was very underwhelming and going back to AAA and getting hammered didn't make it look any better. 

With Norby and Stowers (.387/.441/.613/1.054 over his last 10 games) hitting well, I think it is valid to grade the trade on THIS year. The trade has been an utter failure for THIS year so far. By the way, isn't interesting if you keep running a guy out there every day, they may hit better than getting one start, collect a couple of hits, then ride the pine for a three games like Stowers was used with the Orioles. 

Now, will Rogers find a magic pill and come back next year and be a solid starter, perhaps. 

The trade can not be fully graded right now, that is true, but as a deadline deal to improve the team this year, the trade has failed.

[LookitsPuck]

1 minute ago, Aristotelian said:

The whole point of the trade was that Rogers has two more years of team control. Well, at least 80% of the point of the trade was for '25 and beyond. 

If the Orioles didn’t need a 5th starter now, I’d be 100% more understanding. But they did. There were still 2 months of the season left. 

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

In fact I think we know they exactly didn't, considering all the A-ball kids they went for in the Cease and Fedde deals.

Would we have wanted Fedde for Estrada and Sosa?

Getz probably doesn't want Kjerstad or Beavers much if Crochet is revisited this winter.

Exactly right.

I don’t think any other starter is available to us for those guys. 
 

Again, was a reliever?  I think a fair critique of the trade would be, did Elias value the long term over the short term?  That’s fair. But again, it’s only fair in a guessing game, not based on anything that we know.

[Sports Guy]

5 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:

While true in principle, what we do know already that it has not helped this team get better within the last month. What we can say is that Rogers stuff was very underwhelming and going back to AAA and getting hammered didn't make it look any better. 

With Norby and Stowers (.387/.441/.613/1.054 over his last 10 games) hitting well, I think it is valid to grade the trade on THIS year. The trade has been an utter failure for THIS year so far. By the way, isn't interesting if you keep running a guy out there every day, they may hit better than getting one start, collect a couple of hits, then ride the pine for a three games like Stowers was used with the Orioles. 

Now, will Rogers find a magic pill and come back next year and be a solid starter, perhaps. 

The trade can not be fully graded right now, that is true, but as a deadline deal to improve the team this year, the trade has failed.

But maybe that was never the point of the trade to begin?

[Tony-OH]

7 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:

Because we are losing Burnes and depth is good. I don't think Elias was expecting Rogers to pitch in the 2024 playoffs, although maybe he hoped he might.

As a full fledged member of the Elias and Orioles orange colored glasses brigade, even you have to admit the trade is not looking good for THIS year, right? 

Like I said when the trade happened, the concept of the trade made sense until I saw Rogers' stuff. I didn't go back to see how he was throwing in his last few starts with the Marlins, but if his stuff and command looked anything like it was with the Orioles whoever did the scouting/analysis should be let go. 

 

[Just Regular]

It is cold comfort, but I think the Club did a fairly solid job with the quick hook of Rogers after a few dreadful starts.

It feels similar to when Cole Irvin was hooked after 3 starts in April 2023.

Obviously all bets off if the fastball under 91 is injury rooted, but with health I expect him to be a favorite to start one of the first five games next year.    With health I am curious what he can do in 20 pitch packets at Norfolk in the next few weeks.

[Baseball fandom]

46 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:

Stuff isn’t the only reason to rate a pitcher. 

Until this season, Fedde had never had close to the success Rogers had at this level.

Rogers was also pitching very well when the Os got him.

This is all reactionary bs. There is no logic being used. No intelligence. No history. Just a few starts, which weren’t as bad as the numbers say.  
 

It’s so maddening how people still can’t figure out how small sample sizes mean nothing but yet they get fooled by them ALL THE TIME.

Wow ok. Most seems to think he hasn't been good since 21 but keep on keeping on . 

[Sports Guy]

1 minute ago, Baseball fandom said:

Wow ok. Most seems to think he hasn't been good since 21 but keep on keeping on . 

Who are “most”?

[Baseball fandom]

42 minutes ago, LookitsPuck said:

The Norby for Rogers trade felt so desperate it immediately made me think of trading for Parra and giving away Davies that Duquette royally flubbed.

I’m a huge proponent of Elias, but that trade was  indefensible at the time and even more so now. 

I totally agree but watch it SG is lurking for you next. Lol

[LookitsPuck]

1 minute ago, Baseball fandom said:

Wow ok. Most seems to think he hasn't been good since 21 but keep on keeping on . 

Well, he certainly hasn’t been great since 2021, but what he has been since then is injured, average or bad. 

[Aristotelian]

1 minute ago, LookitsPuck said:

If the Orioles didn’t need a 5th starter now, I’d be 100% more understanding. But they did. There were still 2 months of the season left. 

If winning the division is the be-all-end-all, yes. Rogers didn't help us and may have even hurt a bit. I don't think Elias sees it that way. He's thinking long term and short term. IMO, the trade was about maximizing return on Stowers and Norby, and Rogers helps fill a long term need. We don't know if there was any interest in those two or who else we could have gotten. Certainly, Rogers coming with two years of control was an important consideration. 

 

[LookitsPuck]

Here’s a litmus test.

If you could undo the Rogers trade now, would you? 

[Sports Guy]

2 minutes ago, Just Regular said:

It is cold comfort, but I think the Club did a fairly solid job with the quick hook of Rogers after a few dreadful starts.

It feels similar to when Cole Irvin was hooked after 3 starts in April 2023.

Obviously all bets off if the fastball under 91 is injury rooted, but with health I expect him to be a favorite to start one of the first five games next year.    With health I am curious what he can do in 20 pitch packets at Norfolk in the next few weeks.

He talked about all the data they were showing him. My guess is they want him to rework some mechanics and scrap a pitch, throw something more, etc…I do think it’s fair to say, why do that in a pennant race?  I don’t have a problem aith someone asking that question.

But I think that’s different than saying the trade was awful.

I also agree with Moose that this is an idiotic sword to die on yet people are doing it.