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Sports Illustrated: Orioles Plan Flawed

BrunoCherrytown

By BrunoCherrytown
in Orioles Talk

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wildcard Hangout Grand Counsel

wildcard

Posted
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Well we've won a couple of games, but there has been such a hole dug that didn't neccessarily need to be so. We still need to win 12 games in a row to get back to .500.

Imagine if we had a better offense to begin the season...

Given the pitching we got, this team would have actually had a shot at a winning season.

But instead we had to waste a whole month waiting for the younger hitters to adjust, and hopefully they have, but now the best we can hope for is around 75 wins if that...

Were you answering the question? I couldn't tell.

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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

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Hey guys, Trea is right, if we had Holliday and his .807 OPS and had gotten rid of Wigginton like he wanted, the offense would have been so much better so far.

Now joking aside, of course we should have had better production out of 1B so far, and that is AM's fault for going with Atkins.

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birdman57 AAA

birdman57

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Its still too early.

Too early for what?? What are you waiting for?? To see Hobgood walk on water?? It's obvious to most on this board that MacPhail has put too much pressure on the kids by surrounding them with marginal veterans. No way should Wieters be batting third for example in his first full season in the majors:p

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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

Posted
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Too early for what?? What are you waiting for?? To see Hobgood walk on water?? It's obvious to most on this board that MacPhail has put too much pressure on the kids by surrounding them with marginal veterans. No way should Wieters be batting third for example in his first full season in the majors:p

No it isn't. The kids will hit if they're good enough, if they don't hit well, then they just aren't as good as we hoped for, at least least not at the moment. If LaRoche was on the team instead of Atkins (being realistic here), the young guys wouldn't be doing any better imo.

I wouldn't call Markakis, Roberts, Tejada, and Wigginton with the way he's hitting marginal either. But of course Brob getting hurt doesn't help.

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Guest rochester

Guest rochester

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Yeah, but some really good plans might look like a complete mess midway through.

Correct sir...until the plan is completed (and AM has been communicating it fairly well, i.e. this year is about Ws & Ls) we will not really know how well it is being executed.

I agree that the winter was very uninspiring but I would not call Millwood or Miggy bad moves. But, I read something on here that said we "made a run" at AGon. Because the majority of our "real" prospects would have been needed to get it done does that mean than plan is flawed?

I agree with the uninspiring winter - but I do not know the exact plan. Making a run for AGon (IMO) should throw some "AM is too conservative" folks for a loop.

Articles like this would not appear if we were playing .500 baseball.

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H0smash Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

H0smash

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Correct sir...until the plan is completed (and AM has been communicating it fairly well, i.e. this year is about Ws & Ls) we will not really know how well it is being executed.

I agree that the winter was very uninspiring but I would not call Millwood or Miggy bad moves. But, I read something on here that said we "made a run" at AGon. Because the majority of our "real" prospects would have been needed to get it done does that mean than plan is flawed?

I agree with the uninspiring winter - but I do not know the exact plan. Making a run for AGon (IMO) should throw some "AM is too conservative" folks for a loop.

Articles like this would not appear if we were playing .500 baseball.

I wonder if AM meant to say "this year is more about wins and losses than past seasons, but we still have some rebuilding to do." I feel like last year a lot of the veterans knew it was a rebuilding year which makes it difficult to play your ass off or be excited about the season when you are basically told that you are not going to be making the playoffs this year. I think AM may have said it as a mental push to get the vets to give it everything they have got and to try to get them excited about possible competing this year. Even though I did not expect them to compete, crazier things have happened. Who knows where we would be right now if Gonzalez had been decent so far, Roberts didn't have that back problem, and if Pie could have stayed healthy.

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BrunoCherrytown Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

BrunoCherrytown

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But, I read something on here that said we "made a run" at AGon. Because the majority of our "real" prospects would have been needed to get it done does that mean than plan is flawed?

I agree with the uninspiring winter - but I do not know the exact plan. Making a run for AGon (IMO) should throw some "AM is too conservative" folks for a loop.

Well that's all relative in my opinion. Is putting the lowest offer on the table considered "making a run"? Because we know he's done that before with big names.

So if he did go after AGon and had a package centered around say Tillman and Snyder would that be considered "making a run?" Because it shouldn't be I don't think.

It's no secret MacPhail is too conservative. He has plenty of track record on that previous to the Orioles on payroll and international prospects and free agents. And he's recreated that perception here.

The only thing that would throw us for a loop is actual results on some of these "making a run" for "lurking in the grass" attempts.

I'm "making a run" for Google right now. I'm offering $1billion dollars for the whole company. Is that making a run? It's not when Google is worth around $167.12 billion (as of Friday's market cap close)

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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The trade possibilities with Boston give us a bench mark for AGonz. Bucholtz, Ellesbury, and Reddick. So if the O's were to offer Tillman, Jones , Reimold, or a MiL SP/RP like Erbe or Mickolio I'd say that would be making a run.

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waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

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The trade possibilities with Boston give us a bench mark for AGonz. Bucholtz, Ellesbury, and Reddick. So if the O's were to offer Tillman, Jones , Reimold, or a MiL SP/RP like Erbe or Mickolio I'd say that would be making a run.

Tillman, Jones, Reimold >>>> Bucholz, Ellsbury, Reddick

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glorydays Major Leaguer Cup of Coffee

glorydays

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Hey guys, Trea is right, if we had Holliday and his .807 OPS and had gotten rid of Wigginton like he wanted, the offense would have been so much better so far.

Now joking aside, of course we should have had better production out of 1B so far, and that is AM's fault for going with Atkins.

Trea... I think this is a very valid point and deserves a response.

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El Gordo Hangout Grand Counsel

El Gordo

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Tillman, Jones, Reimold >>>> Bucholz, Ellsbury, Reddick
Thats your opinion. One probably not shared by most GM's. Tillman is unproven in the ML, Bucholtz has pitched successfully there. Reimold = Reddick, and Jones has yet to proove he is as productive as Ellsbury.
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JTrea81 Hangout Grand Counsel

JTrea81

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Trea... I think this is a very valid point and deserves a response.

Look, I wasn't the only one who wanted to dump Wigginton. Frankly he's been a pleasant surprise because he came to camp in shape and is playing everyday. Nobody could anticipate he'd be this good thus far.

As for Holliday. I think it's already been proven that he would have improved our offense. Just because Wigginton is outperforming him to this point doesn't mean that will remain the case for the rest of the season. Not to mention, it wouldn't hurt to have Holliday and Wigginton on this team.

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waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

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Thats your opinion. One probably not shared by most GM's. Tillman is unproven in the ML, Bucholtz has pitched successfully there. Reimold = Reddick, and Jones has yet to proove he is as productive as Ellsbury.

No, I'm fairly confident that almost every GM would trade Reddick, Ellsbury and Bucholz for Tillman Jones and Reimold.

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waroriole Hangout Grand Counsel

waroriole

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If Bucholz is greater than Tillman (I agree) because he's ML proven, then why don't you use the same logic with Reimold vs Reddick? Reimold put up a full season last year with good numbers. Reddick has yet to do so. As for Jones vs. Ellsbury. I would bet that most GM's would trade Ellsbury straight up for Jones in a heartbeat. Bottom line, I think Bucholz sways the value towards the Red Sox package. It would be like us trading Matusz.

Hmmm, maybe I'm not as high on Bucholz as most. Also, it's hard to say Bucholz is ML proven when he's never pitched 100 IP in one season. He's certainly had great flashes, but I would want to see more consistency.

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