Roberts Comes Clean

[The Wedge]

You won't quit with this will you? I guess I'm not making myself clear enough. I'll say it again.

Yes. The allegations turn out to be correct. But I still have a problem with Roberts's inclusion based on a source who was under high stakes pressure from the state and possibly facing jail time. Again, I'm absolutely not equating the report with McCarthyism, but just to use that for comparison's sake: The arguement that the method was okay because they got the right guy is like saying since McCarthy got a few actual spies in his investigation his methods were also sound. There. I hope that makes sense.

Except that being a communist isn't illegal. Possessing and/or distributing drugs or being involved in the usage of illicit materials is.

[Mackus]

But I still have a problem with Roberts's inclusion based on a source who was under high stakes pressure from the state and possibly facing jail time.

You are aware that Bigbie could only go to jail if he LIED to the federal agents. So believing that he risked jailtime and lied about Roberts' drug use just to take someone else down with him is so incredible ridiculous that it defies description.

[blueberryale77]

Actually, what I'm really wondering about is whether Roberts has been using HGH. He never mentioned that in his confession. For all we know, he's on it now.

Did you really need to start that? You were doing so well in your other arguments...

[The Wedge]

You are aware that Bigbie could only go to jail if he LIED to the federal agents. So believing that he risked jailtime and lied about Roberts' drug use just to take someone else down with him is so incredible ridiculous that it defies description.

I know what he's trying to say, which is why I'm harping on his choice of calling it a witch hunt. He feels that you shouldn't include a name when it was pressured out of him. But this isn't the McCarthy Communist Hearings. Apples and oranges.

[Bronco634]

You are aware that Bigbie could only go to jail if he LIED to the federal agents. So believing that he risked jailtime and lied about Roberts' drug use just to take someone else down with him is so incredible ridiculous that it defies description.

And the fact that, often times, the only source you have in an investigation is motivated only by the pressure in question. I'm sure that tennOsfan would have stories of prosecutions with "witnesses" such as this.

[blueberryale77]

You are aware that Bigbie could only go to jail if he LIED to the federal agents. So believing that he risked jailtime and lied about Roberts' drug use just to take someone else down with him is so incredible ridiculous that it defies description.

It would have been very difficult to jail him either way based on the statement that Roberts told him something in 2004. It would be impossible to prove the conversation never happened or that Bigbie didn't simply have an inaccurate memory of it.

[Loupgaroo]

You are aware that Bigbie could only go to jail if he LIED to the federal agents. So believing that he risked jailtime and lied about Roberts' drug use just to take someone else down with him is so incredible ridiculous that it defies description.[/QUOTE]

That would be a ridiculous argument indeed. Fortunatly, I never said anything remotely like that.

[Mackus]

It would have been very difficult to jail him either way based on the statement that Roberts told him something in 2004. It would be impossible to prove the conversation never happened or that Bigbie didn't simply have an inaccurate memory of it.

If you want to argue that he didn't correctly remember the incident or conversation, thats a valid argument. But its laughable to argue that he intentionally lied to Mitchell and the federal agents and made up a story that Roberts told him he used PEDs just one time, exposing himself to the only possible way he could see the inside of a jail cell.

[Loupgaroo]

I know what he's trying to say, which is why I'm harping on his choice of calling it a witch hunt. He feels that you shouldn't include a name when it was pressured out of him. But this isn't the McCarthy Communist Hearings. Apples and oranges.

Perhaps witch hunt was a bad choice of terms. My concern is simply with the level of evidence required to include someone. Of course this isn't McCarthism, and you're right to say so.

[blueberryale77]

The other key component to his confession is that he had no excuse for it other then that he did it, made the wrong choice and felt bad and didn't do it again.

All of the other confession's i've heard about on ESPN have been circled around "injuries". At least Roberts, even if he took 4 shots instead of 1 has come out and said, yeah I did it. And didn't follow that up with, "but only because I needed to do it to recover from injury."

Exactly. No Paul Byrd nonsense about "I'm not like all the other PED users because I speak to church groups and I had a very legitimate scrip from my dentist in a state I've never lived in who lost his license..."

Roberts seems to understand that he was part of an era that had a big problem, and that he contributed to that problem, albeit in a small way. He's taken ownership now and he's always been unafraid to defend others who got caught up in it. He's shown that while he knows it was wrong, there's also a sense of solidarity among those who were involved because of the pressure they faced once to use and now to denounce it as if it's one of the more serious crimes on earth.

[O's Fan83]

Actually, what I'm really wondering about is whether Roberts has been using HGH. He never mentioned that in his confession. For all we know, he's on it now.

""In 2003, when I took one shot of steroids, I immediately realized that this was not what I stood for or anything that I wanted to continue doing. I never used steroids, human growth hormone or any other performance-enhancing drugs prior to or since that single incident."

[The Wedge]

Perhaps witch hunt was a bad choice of terms. My concern is simply with the level of evidence required to include someone. Of course this isn't McCarthism, and you're right to say so.

Fair enough. But even still, like I said, contextually, he had enough that he needed to include Roberts. Because the report wasn't meant to be this (as I like to refer to it) OMGWTFBBQ STEROID LIST!!!11 It was meant to be a report. And in said report, Sen. Mitchell states he spoke with Larry Bigbie, who said that Brian Roberts once told him he had done PED's once or twice. And he invited Roberts to speak about these allegations, but declined. That's it. No other mention, no editorializing about what it meant. The context is everything. Even in hindsight when we know it to be true in the wake of Roberts admission.

[Loupgaroo]

""In 2003' date=' when I took one shot of steroids, I immediately realized that this was not what I stood for or anything that I wanted to continue doing. [b']I never used steroids, human growth hormone or any other performance-enhancing drugs prior to or since that single incident[/b]."

Sorry, I meant to say he never mentioned USING HGH. Yes he denies it now, but he also denied steroid use before. So who knows..

[Frobby]

You won't quit with this will you? I guess I'm not making myself clear enough. I'll say it again.

Yes. The allegations turn out to be correct. But I still have a problem with Roberts's inclusion based on a source who was under high stakes pressure from the state and possibly facing jail time. Again, I'm absolutely not equating the report with McCarthyism, but just to use that for comparison's sake: The arguement that the method was okay because they got the right guy is like saying since McCarthy got a few actual spies in his investigation his methods were also sound. There. I hope that makes sense.

Do you know how many drug dealers are in prison because someone who worked with them was "under high stakes pressure from the state and possibly facing jail time?" This happens every day in criminal courts across the nation. In this case, I doubt Bigbie bought himself any extra credit by naming Brian Roberts.

[Dipper9]

Exactly. No Paul Byrd nonsense about "I'm not like all the other PED users because I speak to church groups and I had a very legitimate scrip from my dentist in a state I've never lived in who lost his license..."

Roberts seems to understand that he was part of an era that had a big problem, and that he contributed to that problem, albeit in a small way. He's taken ownership now and he's always been unafraid to defend others who got caught up in it. He's shown that while he knows it was wrong, there's also a sense of solidarity among those who were involved because of the pressure they faced once to use and now to denounce it as if it's one of the more serious crimes on earth.

While I hold no grudge on Roberts, I also will not praise him for this. He only confensed AFTER being caught and outted by Bigbie. Its like a cheating husband who admits to being wrong AFTER his wife catches him in bed with another woman. He is not being rightious, he is going into damage control. Yes, he made no excuses, but if he was truly sorry he would have said something LOOOOOOOOOOONG before the Mitchell report came out.